Mini: Imagining Home
288 | “Eutychuses Everywhere”
Think of Your Eternal Home
When you close your eyes and imagine eternity, does it feel a little fuzzy, blurry, or — dare we say — boring? Too many of us treat our final destination like a vague cloud-land instead of the vibrant home it’s actually designed to be. Inspired by a late-night question from Ryan’s daughter and a beautiful womb analogy, this mini-episode takes a sledgehammer to the misconceptions of the afterlife. We’re kicking open the door to Revelation 21 and 22 to look at the powerful “negatives” that reveal a beautiful positive. From the erasure of the chaotic sea and restrictive temples to the end of night, pain, and death, we explore how our eternal reality is filled with absolute access, deep relationships, and the ultimate joy of seeing Christ face-to-face. It’s time to stop settling for a blurry hope and start daydreaming about our true forever home!
Takeaways
The Big Idea: The Bible gives a clearer picture of the world to come than we might realize, letting us envision our future with happy hope.
This Week's Challenge: Take time to daydream about your “forever home” with the Lord.
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Boring Heaven Myth
Ryan: an endless, really boring church service where the preacher doesn't know when to end, and there's too many verses
in this
song,
Bryan: People are falling out the windows, all sorts of things, like eutychuses everywhere. Well, hello everyone, and welcome to the Bible Geeks podcast. I'm Bryan Schiele.
Ryan: I'm Ryan Joy.
Bryan: And thanks so much, everyone, for tuning in.
Hope Beyond Heaven
Bryan: What do you think when you imagine your hope? For some of us, it can feel fuzzy or even boring. Others look forward to dying and going to heaven, but have never actually envisioned our final goal.
Ryan: The Bible story doesn't end with souls in heaven. It ends with resurrection, renewal, reunion, and the return of the King. Today, we're taking a few minutes to lift our eyes and dream together of the place we'll spend eternity.
Kids Questions About Heaven
Ryan: All
Bryan: A couple weeks ago, my daughter Evie couldn't sleep and she was asking Adrian what should she be thinking about and she revealed that she was trying to think about heaven to comfort her and it ended up just bothering her more because she couldn't think of what it would be like and she also wasn't sure if she'd even like it.
Ryan: Like it might be boring or it might be, you know, like something that is so different. It's so foreign. Like this is... we call it home, but this is the only home we've ever known so far. So even though we know it's gonna feel right when we get there, it's so blurry sometimes and Adrian used this illustration of, you know, whenever Evie was in her womb, she could hear us talking outside, she could experience the comfort and in some ways the love, the food even.
But even though all of those are realities of the world just outside of her vision, she couldn't even... if she could have it explained to her, she couldn't properly understand everything like a, you know, a sunset or sitting around a table with a family, enjoying the connection and the meal and all of that.
I mean, so many wonderful things here. And in some ways, isn't that how it is looking to the world to come?
So that's where this kind of all started. I
Bryan: alright. Well, yeah, I'm excited for this conversation because it seems like something that we treat as sort of a vague idea, but maybe let's nail down some things that we know about this new home of ours.
Better Than Expected
Bryan: But as we kind of think about like, some of these vague things that we may not really have a great sense of, like, you know, being in the womb and not experiencing actual life until later, what do you think of, like, from your own experience that you've looked forward to, but once you actually had it in your grasp, that was like, way better than you expected.
Ryan: mean, there's two levels. You could talk about something small or something big. I don't know what's the best. I'll go with the big thing, which is marriage. You know, like I was single for a long time. I looked forward to being married. I was looking for that person. I was praying about it, you know, knowing that most likely the Lord would someday make that happen.
But it is way better. It's way harder than you could imagine, but it's also just way, way better. And the blessing of companionship and connection and having someone to just be your person, to be home for you, to sort of be alone together sometimes, to have someone to go through good things and bad things and have all of this sort of shorthand language that you can experience together.
So I'll go with marriage instead of talking about some vacation or something I went with. But please feel free to bring it back down to something smaller. What about you?
Bryan: mine is small. Mine is a vacation. Actually, mine was a work trip that turned kind of into a vacation. I was commissioned to go to Hawaii for a while, and it was like, yeah, you're going to Oahu, you're going to support this division out there. I was like, okay, well, fine. And then it just wound up there was so much downtime that I was able to, like, sight see and kind of take the afternoons off and, like, go, you know, eat shrimp on the beach, and it was just amazing.
And so it was like something I kind of looked forward to, and then once it all happened, it was like, no, no, this is a proper vacation. Enjoy yourself. The only bad part was that my family wasn't with me, but that also provided a new level of removed stress for me. It was like, you don't have to confer with anyone.
This is about you. It's like, cool, I'll take
Ryan: I mean, thinking you're going on a work trip and then discovering just you have loads of time to enjoy the beauty of Hawaii, that does sound like it's a blessing that surprises you. And, you know, you think about all of these things we're talking about, like marriage and this beautiful garden with rainbows and waterfalls and, you know, beaches and beauty and sunsets.
And in a way, that's all language that the Bible uses to talk about our hope,
Bryan: It sounds
Ryan: that interesting?
Bible Pictures Of Heaven
Bryan: us into a conversation about pictures of heaven in the Bible, so let's move on to our conversation here about pictures of this great home that we have to look forward to. Of the Bible's list, I suppose, of pictures that we get of our new home, what is it, the one that, like, really just comforts you the most when you think about dying and going to be with the Lord?
Comfort In The Crossing
Ryan: You brought up something we were talking recently about the idea that "paradise," this word that Jesus uses when he's talking to the criminal on the cross, "today you'll be with me in paradise," that that's the word used in the subtuage Greek translation of the Old Testament for the Garden of Eden. And what a thing to hear about that. You know, I'm just looking at this word "comforts" and I just started going down that lane because now I'm thinking about Hawaii, but I want to give a different answer. So I'm going to change gears mid-answer here. And while the beauty of paradise sounds amazing, I think the thing that makes me most nervous or uncomfortable that I would need comforting from is the idea of just stepping over, you know, of going from here, dying, and stepping into a world that I don't know, you know? And so I think the most comforting picture is whenever Jesus in his story of the rich man Lazarus talks about how the poor man died and the angels carried him to Abraham's
bosom. And that would be a weird detail for Jesus to just, like a fictional, fanciful thing for him to make up when he's the one that actually knows what happens when we die. And so that is very comforting to me, the idea that here the Father knows that we might need some care, you know, in that, and there's these ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation, angels, as Hebrews 1 describes them, who he's going to send to just take our hand and guide us gently across that river.
And that's helpful when I think about people who I love who have gone on, as well as when I think about myself going to be with the
Bryan: I think when you're talking about that, that changed my answer immediately because you were thinking, like, well, I don't know what's on the other side of this door that I'm stepping through, and that view or the language Jesus uses there in the parable about the angels carrying him across. I also think about, like, the fact that we are getting a window into heaven now, which, when we begin to see the intersection of, you know, the Lord's kingdom here on earth as we serve him and worship him and, you know, the qualities and characteristics we see within people who are following him sincerely, his saints.
And I feel like that is, like, a picture of what we will see on the other side of that, and that's what Revelation begins to elaborate on in some more language also. But just that worship, the praise, the joy and happiness that are on the other side, and I think for me, maybe that is the, like, what if we could get a glimpse of heaven?
Well, we kind of have a glimpse of heaven in a very imperfect way, but in its form that it's able to live up to, the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, the church, his body is a precursor, I think, of what we should expect someday. So I think that brings me a lot of comfort, that it's like, I know what to expect when I get there because I'm already in some sense participating in some of that now.
Ryan: It's like all of the best things here are echoes of eternity, and they're just ringing backwards, you know, from that place, that there is something we were created for. It's kind of a strange idea that we were not--the things we experience here, our life is not what our life is about. Like, our eternal life is going to fulfill all of our longings in a really particular, rich way, that all of these things--I love that thinking of the connection to people.
But if we look beyond that, beyond this idea of just, like, where are the ones we loved right now? Where will we go if we die before the Lord comes?
After Jesus Returns
Ryan: Well, what about after he comes? What picture of that new heavens and new earth, our resurrection, our eternal reality after Jesus returns resonates most with you?
And there's kind of a lot more about this, maybe, than there is that intermediate state, but it's beautiful pictures.
Bryan: I think it's a lot of, you know, amazing blessings, and we'll talk about some of them, you know, things that are not going to be there in just a second, but I go to Philippians 1.23, thinking about this, where Paul says, "I'm hard-pressed between the two," like, the idea of dying and staying with the church there to be with them.
He says, you know, "My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better." Then he goes on to talk about remaining there with him is necessary for them on their account. And like, just that idea that no matter what carrot, I suppose, is being dangled out in front of us as like, "Here's what's on the horizon, here's what's coming in the future."
I just think this idea that being with Christ should be and is, for me, the linchpin that makes it all work, because it's not just like a really nice, you know, house that's prepared for me, or like a really great garden scene, or any of these things that like, are there and that are talked about. But wherever that is, as long as I'm with Christ, that is--that's going to be the best part.
And so, I'm constantly trying to remind myself of that fact, and I think that's a game-changer. What about you?
Ryan: Well, yeah, absolutely. That is the best part. As you're saying, Philippians 1, that's the best part of dying and going to heaven. That's also the best part of the resurrection. Whenever Paul describes in 1 Thessalonians 4, the Lord returning, he says, "And after the dead in Christ rise first, and then we who are alive," he says, "and so we will always be with the Lord."
And whenever we're reading about the new heavens and new earth in Revelation 21 and 22, the great declaration is, "The dwelling of God is with man." It's with us. And so that reunion, you know, we talked about marriage, that bridal picture of, like, home is a person, right? And he is our real home. It's not just a place.
In fact, it's really weird in Revelation 21 and 22, I've been thinking about this, I didn't preach on this part, but the new heavens and new earth come down, the city, the new Jerusalem comes down, and it is this place, and it's with all of this language, but it's also like, you know, it's the bride that's coming down.
And so it's like the people in the place are melded and merged in this really profound way
because the Lord is infusing every place and infusing us as his people, and so there is this connection between the two that, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, but it kind of breaks the brain, another of many ways that thinking about our hope
does
that.
Bryan: again, you know, we talk about the church being like a foreshadowing or a precursor of that, and that's the same way we talk about the church. When we talk about our churches, we talk about, you know, sometimes we refer to them as a place, like that is where we go to church, we go to the assembly, but like, we all know that the church is the people.
And so, you know, it's the same thing, I think, when we get to that, you know, vision of the city coming down, and the people there, and the leadership, and the quality of the people, and the character of the--you know, all of that is weaving together. But you open the door to Revelation 21 and 22, so let's kick the door wide open here in a little game that we're going to play.
Revelation No More Sea
Bryan: We're going to talk about some of the things that will not be there in this new heavens and new earth that we're talking about on this episode. So, the first one here that we called out is in Revelation 21, verse 1, where there will no longer be any sea there. And I don't really get a lot of comfort from that, but you know, what is--like, I'm not afraid of the water, so that's not really my problem, but, like, why is--why is that supposed to be there as, like, a comfort, you think?
Ryan: Yeah, I think that if you follow the theme of the sea throughout the whole Bible, I mean, it's there in Genesis 1, all these chaotic waters, it's there in the flood and in the crossing of the Red Sea, and all of this idea of what does the sea represent in the Bible and in kind of the thinking of a Near Eastern ancient person.
Well, it is chaotic, it is dangerous, it is, you know, it's disorder, it's unknown, it's mysterious. It also separates peoples, you know, andall of that is gone. And, you know, just to talk about this idea of what we're, why does Revelation give this picture, not just of the sea, but all these "no's," like, it's like it's giving these, I think of it like whenever you take, in old cameras, whenever you take a picture, you have a negative, and that negative reveals the positive, you know, you can paint a picture, or print a picture from that negative,
And so I think sometimes the easiest way to describe something, when you're trying to comfort someone and show them how things are going to be better, is to say what it's not like. Here's how it's going to be different.
No Temple No Death
Ryan: So, okay, the next one is no temple.
Like, what in the world? I thought we were done with that whole storyline with the temple in the Old Testament. So why is he now saying there is no temple? And I thought we were the temple also. So, you know, how does
this work?
What is
the
Bryan: about God and the Lamb being the temple, and so just the idea that there is this building that separates you from the presence of God, that physical structure, that building, is gone. You know, we think about, like, the most holy place and the veil that was there and all of the access that was limited to get into God's presence, and now, in fact, it's just God and the Lamb being the temple themselves.
Like, they are the dwelling place that we are with. And so that's, again, you know, like you say, the flip side of not having a temple is actually just having the open access to God. And then the next one that we were gonna talk about here is no death. This is obvious, so tell me all about why this is-- why this is there.
Ryan: I mean, obviously, yeah, there's—Jesus is the resurrection in life. We have not only souls and spirits that are alive, but there we will then have these resurrection bodies that are like his glorious, eternal, immortal body that he received when he rose from the dead. And so there's this health and vitality and longevity as permanent certainties that there is just something always lurking in the shadows here that will be forever gone.
And not only our own experience of death, but the separation that comes whenever we experience the death of a loved one. So, I mean, I think, like you said, that one is kind of obvious.
No Night No Sorrow
Ryan: But what about this idea of no night in chapter 21, verse
Bryan: I'm good with no night.
I am not a night person. I do not like to stay up at night. I think for the same reasons why you were talking about the sea being a place of chaos and uncertainty and, you know, just that idea of darkness. It's not really a place where you want to camp out like in the darkness. You always gravitate towards light in some way.
And so the fact that there is no need for the sun because he is just illuminating everything, and what an amazing picture that there's not gonna be any night any longer. And I just-- I think that's a-- such a blessing to be able to imagine a time where you don't have to waste-- I mean, imagine how much of your day you waste by sleeping.
You know, like you can just constantly, 24/7, if that's even a thing anymore, 24/7. You can
Ryan: Because there's not a night or a
day.
Bryan: exactly. So you can constantly be serving and worshipping God in all the ways that you're dreaming about now. So no night is great. And then the last one, of course, no pain and no sorrow, kind of goes back to the idea of no death.
So, similar answer to no death?
Ryan: No, I think it's something different. I think this reveals that the positive, or the positive picture to the negative, is that there's going to be happiness. It's going to be celebration. It's going to be togetherness. It's going to be comfort. You know, it's going to be—what's the opposite of pain? I guess pleasure,
you
know?
Bryan: That feels weird to say.
Ryan: to be very pleasurable. It's going to be fun and enjoyable. There'll be, by all accounts, over and over again in the Bible, tasty food, a great feast, great sense of camaraderie in the meal and laughter. And, you know, it's going to be a joy. It is not going to be like, I think, some of us have somehow gotten the picture painted in sermons we heard somewhere, like an endless, really boring church service where the preacher doesn't know when to end, and there's too many verses
in this
song,
Bryan: People are falling out the windows, all sorts of things, like eutychuses everywhere.
Ryan: be singing in the best way, like singing your favorite song, and we'll be talking about God and the good things constantly in the best way, not in the ways that are lifeless. So, yeah, I think no pain or sorrow is just the opposite side of that, because all the joy and connections and
togetherness we'll
have.
Best Part Being With Jesus
Bryan: So let's wrap this thing up as we turn to the positive now. Just real quickly, what do you think of-- on the topic of Jesus, on the topic of the Lord God, like, what is it that you find so inspiring when you think about the idea of being in heaven, in the presence of the Lord for eternity? Like, what passage jumps out?
What kind of picture do you want to latch on to?
White Stone And Seeing Him
Ryan: one I love from Revelation 2 that is a little bit weird and mysterious. You're given—those who overcome are given a white stone with a name on it that no one knows except you and the Lord. And the name can't be the Lord's name, because everybody knows that name.
And the name can't be Ryan, because everybody knows that name. So I think the idea of it is it's like a secret between me and God in that my Lord knows me in this profound and deep way. He gets me, He sees me, He loves me, and I know Him, He knows me. It's 1 Corinthians 8, 3, "To love and be loved is to be known, and fully known, and to fully know."
So I'm going to go with that. I think there's so much you could say. But what about you? When you think about different—all the ways the Bible talks about how great it is to be with the Lord and to be close to Him in
that place,
Bryan: I was digging into 1 John 3, verse 2, says, "Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared, but we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is." And I think that's just such a cool picture of seeing God as He is, or the Lord Jesus as He is, because we'll be like Him.
And our bodies will be like His heavenly resurrected body. Like, all of these amazing things that I can't even-- I could just daydream about now, but, you know, the fact that someday I will get to see Him and see His face, Revelation 22, verse 4, I'll see Him as He is, because that's how I will be. And what a-- what a cool way just to think about the Lord, and think about what I'll be someday, and what we'll all be someday.
Holding those little white stones with some kind of name on it, who knows?
Ryan: Yeah, yeah, I love what you said there.
Daydream Your Forever Home
Ryan: I mean, I think that's a good challenge for everybody, for all of us to take time to daydream about our forever home with the Lord, and daydream alone, daydream together. We have more clarity than we might think whenever we look at these passages, even though we understand we're looking through the veil, we're looking through a glass dimly to misapply that passage.
But, you know, we don't see it very well. But there's some things we can grab ahold of, and it's worth thinking about, so we're excited for
that day.
Bryan: Yeah. And I think that's really the idea of this whole little mini-episode, is just to lean into the fact that the Bible does give us a lot clearer of a picture of what we have to look forward to, then it leaves us with this vague sense of like, "Oh, I have no idea what's gonna happen." And so, hopefully, as you're studying and digging into the Bible, as you run across these moments that just should stand out to you that these are things to hold onto, and just get specific about it.
Daydream about these real moments that are going to happen someday.
Final Blessing And Outro
Bryan: This has been a cool little mini-episode, so thanks everyone for tuning in to the Bible Geeks podcast. You can find us on our website at biblegeeks.fm. You can find a lot more episodes there. We've got one more episode left in our season, and we're excited about that one.
Until next episode, then, may the Lord bless you and keep you.
Ryan: Bloom,