Joshua and Caleb Face-Off
257 | “Big Sandals to Fill”
Follow God with Your Whole Heart
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the ultimate Old Testament face-off! In this corner: Joshua, the iconic leader who brought down the walls of Jericho. And in this corner: Caleb, the rugged warrior who waited 45 years to claim his mountain. These two titans of faith were the only spies who believed God's promise, but their paths were very different. Is it harder to be Joshua, the "front of house" leader stepping into Moses's massive sandals, or Caleb, the "back of house" mountain man who had to patiently wait 40 years in the wilderness? Join our friendly debate as we explore their unique strengths, their vital partnership, and why the very essence of faith might just be learning how to wait.
Takeaways
The Big Idea: The complementary faithfulness of Joshua (the leader) and Caleb (the loyal warrior) provides a powerful, two-part model for how to follow God wholeheartedly, both in seasons of action and seasons of waiting.
This Week's Challenge: This week, ask yourself: In my current season of life, is God calling me to a "Joshua moment" (to step up, lead, and take new ground), or a "Caleb moment" (to be patiently faithful, trust God's promises in a season of waiting, and finish strong)?
Helpful Links
- Watch Episode 257 (VIDEO)
- Give Me This Mountain (BLOG)
- Priscilla and Aquila (PASSAGE)
- The Story of Ruth and Naomi (PASSAGE)
- The 12 Spies & Caleb's "Different Spirit" (PASSAGE)
- Joshua Crosses the Jordan (PASSAGE)
- The Commander of the Lord's Army (PASSAGE)
- Caleb Claims His Mountain (PASSAGE)
- Joshua's Final Challenge (PASSAGE)
-
Introduction and Welcome
Bryan: like dude,
Ryan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Big
Bryan: big shoes right big big sandals to fill there Well, hello everyone and welcome to the Bible geeks podcast I'm Bryan Schiele
Ryan: I'm Ryan Joy.
Old Testament Face-Off: Joshua vs. Caleb
Bryan: and thanks so much everyone for tuning in Welcome ladies and gentlemen to the ultimate Old Testament face off in this corner the iconic leader who brought down the walls of Jericho
Ryan: And in this corner, the rugged warrior who waited 45 years to claim his mountain, Caleb.
Bryan: these two men were Titans of faith the only spies who believed in God's promise
Ryan: So today we're putting them head-to-head in a friendly debate to explore their unique strengths, their incredible stories, and what they teach us about following God with our whole
heart. going down man
[Laughter] Joshua, I stand with him.
Sermons and Deep Dives into Caleb and Joshua
Ryan: So it wasn't that long ago that you preached a sermon on Caleb, right?
Bryan: Yeah, I preached a sermon on Caleb The whole thing I was like deeply Invested in Caleb's story in like a big way for a while never really thought about Caleb that much until kind of taking a deep dive there.
Ryan: Yeah, we don't think about him nearly enough, I think. I learned a lot from your article that I read on that. And then I
was like, Alright, well, I'll take the other side of that. I'm going to preach a sermon on Joshua." And so I just did that here a couple weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago. And that was a really cool study to study Joshua.
But we thought that would be a fun thing to take these two giants of-- not literal giants, though they faced them-- but these giants of
the face--
Bryan: you're just so Into the conversation about Giants from our geektober that it's just infected your vocabulary
Ryan: Yes.
Yeah, yes. These giants of faith and kind of set them against each other, contrast, compare, but also talk about how they're such a partnership together and why that partnership matters.
Bryan: Yeah, I feel like anytime you can create some like fun face off in some way Especially about these great characters of faith is always a good day.
Ryan: up our
Bryan: not that we're yeah We're not really like pitting them against each other.
But yeah is thinking about Joshua and Caleb. They're almost just a duo, right? we almost always refer to them as Joshua and Caleb, but Thinking about another dynamic duo in the Bible.
Dynamic Duos in the Bible
Bryan: What are what what's another dynamic duo for you in the Bible? And why do you think those those two figures go together very well.
Ryan: [laughs] For me, the first--I got to go Priscilla and Aquila.
Adrian and I almost look to them as like our heroes as a couple in the early church. They're like,
Bryan: Nice.
Ryan: "We want to be Priscilla and Aquila," in that they are always together. Sometimes it's Aquila first. Sometimes it's Priscilla first when they're
listed. But they're never talked about separately. They just clearly are doing amazing work for the Lord. Paul is relying on them. They're helping Apollos figure out the faith. And they're oftentimes a little bit behind the scenes, pushing other people forward. But they're hosting churches in their house, and they're just doing all kinds of work.
And the way they collaborate together as one flesh that Jesus is using, their marriage and their mutual and collaborative strengths for his kingdom, that's what we want to be. So, yeah, that's the dynamic duo I went with. Who did you think
Bryan: I was thinking of Ruth and Naomi Not
Ryan: Ooh,
Bryan: a duo in terms of marriage, of course But you know They they had been through some stuff together and I always appreciate when two Figures are going through the same thing and can kind of bring two separate approaches to it It's like one of the perfect storytelling devices not that it's a fake story But just in in any narrative you're thinking like, okay These two people have faced the same thing and they're seeing both sides of it one from just complete grief and loss and the other from just a newfound determination to follow after the Lord who wasn't really her Lord in the first place and the way that they can both kind of Demonstrate how to deal with this right difficult situation.
They were going through I love Ruth and Naomi and just they were very knit together You know from that standpoint like she wasn't gonna leave her and they they almost became this Dynamic duo in some way that that gave us a great example to follow of faith So I think those are two great examples lots more we could probably talk about but let's
Joshua and Caleb: A Partnership of Faith
Bryan: let's say we face off with Joshua And Caleb here in this discussion
and so maybe in the the first round of this face-off It would be helpful for us to talk about some ways that they were Similar to each other the ways that they went through the same events and dealt with the same things together Of course, we're thinking about the book of Numbers
They should have just walked right in right? That was what God's intention was They should have walked into the land of Canaan the land that flows with milk and honey Except they just couldn't or weren't allowed to by by their other ten spies that came back What do you think of when you see these two guys together and the way that they worked?
What why are they such a can I call them a power couple because they really are just like two guys who have the same? Way of handling
Ryan: I liked your dynamic duo because it goes back to Allen's Batman reference. But I think it tells me one partner means you're not alone. You know? Like, what a difference one person makes standing with you. people literally start picking up rocks. They're literally saying to each other, "Let's stone them with stones," in Numbers 14.10.
These are your family, your friends all around, and you're just coming to
say, "Here's what we need to do. Here's what God wants us to do." You're doing what you're supposed to do. The whole people are turning against you. And what a difference it would be being the one out of 12 that was saying that versus having one other person that you can kind of-- it's like in those action movies where you stand back to back, circling the people all around you, all the bad guys.
And, like, you're standing back to back. Somebody's got your six, and you are able to know you're not alone. And so when I preached this sermon, I kind of did a little twist on it where I called it "Finding Joshua
Being Joshua." And so my goal was to show how people in this congregation have been Joshua and how we can all be Joshua.
Bryan: Yeah, you're making a great point there It just having somebody with you is is huge and it is one of the great reasons I think why Jesus sent out his disciples two by two We've talked about that a lot but to have somebody with you is a big deal Especially when you're dealing with I mean what would have been just such an overwhelming Opposition that they were facing not just the ten spies who came back and gave a different report But the entire group of the people like you're saying they wanted to pick up stones They wanted to stone them and or somebody like Caleb to stand by himself You'd have to think his faith would be strong enough to continue to do that But how much easier would it have been to be standing with Joshua and there they are together?
And so I appreciate that a lot that they're able to lean on each other in this moment I also think about how in numbers 14 verse 24 my servant Caleb God says because he has a different spirit and has followed me Wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land So like Joshua is kind of a not mentioned in that discussion exactly But he God is specifically bringing out Caleb and saying he has a different Spirit and in my sermon that was actually one of the things I landed on pretty heavily was what does it mean to have a different?
Spirit what is God trying to describe when he's describing this man having a different spirit? And I feel like that is such a fundamental thing to land on and understand like what does it mean for me? To not live like the Gentiles do in the futility of their mind not to live like everyone else in the world
how can I live with a new spirit? How can I live with something that is otherworldly or given to me by someone on the outside? And that's that's such a challenging thought to think about it's like I I live in the world I see the same things that everyone else sees I see the milk and the honey But I also see the Giants and the overwhelming opposition I see all of that But my reaction to it is completely different because I have a different spirit I'm not gonna react like everyone else Reacts
Ryan: Yeah, I brought up in my sermon that movie "Minority Report," the
Tom Cruise movie, where, like,
there's this majority report. We know what's going to happen. The giants will clearly defeat
us. And Caleb and Joshua come with the minority report saying, "Look, God do great things." And Joshua has been watching from the shadows both Moses' boldness and God's faithfulness
to do everything he tells Moses he's going to do.
So when the spotlight was on him, he had to take his stand, but he followed the example of his mentor. He trusted God to do what he always did, deliver and to keep his
Caleb's Patience and Faith
Bryan: Yeah, so these two guys are seeing the same stuff They're responding similar ways for similar reasons and I like that Joshua like you said He's he's kind of not on full display here in this reading in numbers 13 and 14 he does stand up with Caleb at the end of the day to You know vouch for the response that the people should have had but it is actually, you know If I if I have to hold up my boy here, you know Caleb Caleb is the one who it at the end of their reports in verse 30 Caleb quieted the people before Moses and said let us go up at once and Occupy it or we are able to overcome it.
Caleb is like he's out and he's he's taking a leadership role Making sure people hear his point and we don't see much of what Joshua says in that case But I'm not trying to pit these people together against each other yet But maybe let's start that as we move into the next section here. I think Caleb is awesome.
So Fight me on that Ryan. Let's talk about Caleb
versus Joshua
Ryan: do I. Wait a
minute. No. Joshua is slightly more awesome, I
think.
Bryan: So we're looking at in the early years here during this moment in numbers and so on We're looking at Joshua who takes on the role of general, you know He really becomes like Moses is number two. He's he's doing all the work He's making things happen And you can then you've got Caleb who kind of becomes like the mountain man in a way You know, he's kind of just in the wilderness wandering around and you don't see him very much But I don't know you see Joshua you see Caleb and in their response in the beginning But then now sort of in this period of wandering, what are you seeing is like the big difference between these two guys?
Ryan: what you see happen from here, I guess even going into the conquest a little bit, if we could go
further, is Joshua echoes Moses' experience over and over again. Caleb is doing something. He's like forging his own
path.
But Joshua has been trained. He's been developed. He's been watching from the shadows what Moses is doing.
there's just this ongoing kind of paralleling, both of, I think, Joshua imitating what he's seen, but also God doing things that say, "Look, just like Moses was there to lead you and I was with him, I'm with Joshua." He is stepping into something and I think a critical moment is whenever they cross over the Jordan, now it's like each step of the way from the beginning, we've watched Joshua has been with Moses.
He's had his guy and now he's crossing over and Moses is left behind. Moses has died before they cross over. And so now it's like, it's just you, buddy. You figure it out. Of course he has the Lord. Of course he has others. But everyone is looking to him. And so I think that's this moment that I can relate to about, you've been developed.
People have invested in you, but there comes a time when it's yours to step up. And he does. And he goes through this long process, of course, of leading them. I think that's a big difference also between him, his story, and Caleb's story.
Joshua's Leadership and Legacy
Bryan: I and isn't that so amazing like in the 40 45 years 40 years of wilderness wandering But it takes them a while obviously Surrounding that to get into the promised land of all that time like Joshua is being formed like he's becoming someone he is He's being trained to lead he's on display You see him a lot you see his story brought up a lot and I appreciate that for him to grow in that way to then step into the shoes of Moses like dude,
Ryan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Big
Bryan: big shoes right big big sandals to fill there and On the other hand you see the story of Caleb and it's like he's not even there You know, he's he was one of the first people to stand up and quiet down the people there, you know originally But the whole time you don't get a lot of his story popping up You don't you don't follow Caleb around you see him show up again in Joshua 14 And you're about the time 45 years later.
He is he's 85 years old. He's an old man and But boy, I mean when he pops up he's he means business like this whole time he's been waiting and wandering and Listening to and having to deal with the people that he disagreed with and you know Watching them one by one die in the wilderness
like I'm you know It's not a lot of said about him but I think you can put yourself in his in his shoes in his position to be able to see like what would have been like to have been one of the only two people to stand up and say we can do this and then having to go off Into the wilderness not because you made a bad call but everyone else around you made a bad call But then to know that it's gonna be okay.
You're actually gonna get the promise that God made to you So just just like the patience involved in waiting and when he pops back up on the scene like he's not a bitter angry old Man, which I love in his story like he's not he's not like these dumb Israelites around me who all died like no He's just confident in God He's like I am as strong today as I ever was before like give me the hill country Give me the promise that you made to me and he stands up just with this confident assertion of his trust in God his different spirit caused him to push forward And so the next time we see him he is just ready to take on Giants Which is awesome because that's actually what he does right we talked about it in our in our last conversation He is ready to take on Giants and take them down to get the hill country that God had promised to him
Ryan: It is an interesting contrast. It's like he's doing on a micro level what Joshua is sort of overseeing at the macro level. You know, like he's doing, this is what all of God's people are supposed to be doing. All of the fathers of a clan or all of the just as the people, we're going to take our spot and we're going after it and we trust God and we know we can defeat him.
And Joshua is told right at the beginning of the book of Joshua in his, basically his commission, be strong and courageous, which is what Caleb is showing. Don't be afraid. I'm with you. Keep the law in your mouth. Keep meditating on the law. I'll be with you. But then there's this moment right after they cross over the Jordan where he meets up with the commander of the Lord's army.
And he asks him, are you for us or are you for our enemies? And the commander of the Lord army says, Like what?
Like it's, it's, you expect him to say, yeah, I'm for you. But he says, no, he says, neither. I am the commander of the Lord's army. In other words, stand with the Lord. It's not about who's standing with you.
It's about who are you standing with? And so, and Joshua has been standing with the Lord all his life. We get to the end, we get to Joshua 24, and it's like, choose this day who you'll serve. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. But he's been, that's a declaration. It's a challenge to everybody else.
He's been saying that all along. He's been doing that all along. He was the commander of the army back in Exodus 17 against the Amalekites when Moses is holding up his arms. He was halfway up the mountain, you know, at Sinai. He was leading and following God all the way through, and he oversaw, whether it's dealing with the fallout of AI or dealing with, you know, marching around Jericho or whatever they need to do.
He has been doing it all along. And so it's like, I'm still standing, and I'm still where I was supposed to be. And so, yeah, you see him then leading as everything is conquered.
Bryan: he becomes this almost like statesman right like this figure who's out there in front of everyone and he's now the leader He's taken Moses position He he was fighting for the people and now he's almost in this time where things will become more peaceful after all of the battles and everything now He becomes this figure like you're saying in Joshua 24 where he's he's now Like motivating the people to to follow him and to be like him and he's he's the figurehead now in in a way Whereas you still kind of have Caleb who is like the mountain man rogue like he trusts in God But he's almost behind the scenes in a way and it's not that he's like doing things just for himself But he does trust God and he is still doing the work of God like in Joshua 15 We actually see him go off and drive out the sons of Anak and and take over The the mountain that he wanted God to give him or that God had promised to give him He calls for the mountain and he goes out and he defeats these giants and like I actually you know I think about this from like from the perspective of of Joshua he's a leader He's out in front. He's the statesman sort of Caleb's the guy who just gets it done he's not tootin his horn He's not like everybody look at me, he's persistent. He's out there. His faith has never wavered and even at 85 He's like if you want to follow me, that's great.
Joshua's telling everyone to follow him He's like, let me show you what it looks like to follow God and if you want to do this to bring it on I
Ryan: and even just the book of Joshua and this whole era is an era of doing. It's an era of, let's get it done. Let's battle. There is like, and you get to the end, it's like, mission accomplished. You know, we did it. Obviously, there's a few issues that later show
up, but you get to the end of the book, and the last half of the book is like, it's kind of a hard read because you're just going through the distribution giving, here's the border of this land, and they were given that
land. And why is that all there? You get to the end of that section
In chapter 21, verse 45, he says, "Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to Israel had failed. All came to pass." Every single word, every single idea, and that's what all of those chapters of land distribution are about. Caleb has his story. Somebody else, we don't even know their story, how they are conquering, you know, the hill country of Judah or, you know, somewhere over in Ephraim or whatever.
Like, there are other stories, but God fulfilled all of it, and everybody got the land that was promised them. Joshua is part of that story. Caleb is part of that story. But, of course, the hero of both stories is God, and that's the big thing. And that's what they knew all the way back when they were looking across at the giants.
God is going to do this.
Bryan: I was talking to I'm teaching the high schoolers right now and we were we were talking in our discussions about front of house people versus back of house people And it was all in service of talking through Philippians chapter 2 where Paul's talking about himself as being poured out as a drink offering But then he then he highlights at the end of that chapter Timothy and Epaphroditus and he's sort of you know He's talking about their service and he's talking about, you know, all the amazing things that they have done But they don't like they don't get the credit necessarily that someone like Paul would get because they're not out in front They're not the leader They're not the one out doing that sort of visible work like Paul's so known for and I feel like maybe in a similar way Joshua feels like a like a front of house person People are looking to him people see him and then you've got Caleb maybe being a back of house person or a backstage Person who's doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes and you know that that the work would not have been as as Productive without him, but I feel like that's kind of maybe the role that these two guys play and I don't know I was wondering for you like as a test of faith, you know You've got in the wilderness.
Let's let's roll back Joshua's in the wilderness trying to lead the people Caleb is in the wilderness Just being patient waiting and waiting W waiting and waiting hich of those do you think is harder like for you if you were put into that position? Would you have more of a challenge dealing with a leadership role? over a people like who the Israelites were at the time in the wilderness or would you have more of a challenge like just being Patient while you watched all these people live out there the last few years of their lives.
Ryan: think the second one, I think leading, going back to doing, leading, you feel like you're doing something. Like, okay, I have a task. I like it when I have a job to do, a mission to accomplish. Now I know what I need to get done here. Whereas waiting, you just feel like it is-- it's not aimless because you're setting your hopes on God, but it's like, what do I do while I wait?
What does this look like? standing in line waiting is totally different than getting something done.
Bryan: Well there's some level of Distraction involved if I could say it like that like I'm distracting myself with leadership jobs.
Ryan: I did a sermon a while back on Isaiah 40 and on the idea of waiting on the Lord that really helped me think about why does God keep bringing up waiting on the Lord? Why is that such a statement of faith? And it's this connection in between God is going to get us through this. God is going to answer our prayers.
God is going to lead us to a better thing. Or even in the end, you know, Jesus is going to come and make everything right, whatever it is. But that's not where we live. We live in the moment where we're asking for something, where we're trusting. That's the only reason faith we need
faith. If we already had it, there would be no faith.
So the essence of faith is in a way waiting. And so the connection between where we are right now in the trial and where we are going, what we trust God's promise to be, that what connects us all the way till we get there is waiting on the Lord. And it is inherently a challenging act of faith.
people might say, "Well, you know, if you don't have to lead, that's a hard thing to do, to lead this people. And, you know, you're just busy and you've got headaches and everything, whereas Caleb gets to just hang out and you don't do anything.
And, you know, you just get a nice break." That's not what Caleb was
doing, and that's not what waiting on the Lord is.
It is daily obedience, daily faith. You know, he's going out, he's collecting the manna, he's, you know, helping with the--whatever is happening with the tent and the tabernacle and the moving things around
it's--so it's not idleness. Waiting isn't
idleness. But it's--yeah, it is challenging to sit and know, "I have nothing I can contribute to solving this problem right now. I just got to hang on."
Bryan: Yeah and I think that you know for me resonates pretty pretty well that you've got someone like Caleb who If he's asking himself every morning, what kind of dent am I making in the world? Like what kind of impact am I having not much? I mean like there's not he doesn't get this like daily visible source of of evidence that like yep Everything is gonna work out.
He just has to wait and maybe this is the biggest lesson for me It's an internal game for him. he's keeping his mind, right? He's keeping his priorities in check He's making sure that the same commitment that he made that day with the ten spies who didn't agree with him that that same level of faith pushed and also grew to the time when he could actually Receive the promise and if that's not a lesson for Christians today I don't know what is cuz very few of us are going to have our name written on some great plaque somewhere about all the Wonderful things we did, But as somebody who can just keep pushing keep waiting I think that really is an encouragement thinking about Caleb, which is why I like him a lot I don't know if I like him more than Joshua.
I think you've made a compelling case for Joshua, but
Ryan: I love that there at the end, they both are taking a stand,
just like they did all the way back when they came back as spies. take a stand is such a powerful thing, to make a commitment and make a declaration. And, you know, Caleb is like, "Give me this mountain," you know, and Joshua is like, "Take--"we sing the song, "Dare to stand like Joshua."
"As for me and my house, this is what we will do. You should choose that. You must make this decision in the present that is a decision of being." It's not like--and so we're saying, " is who I
am now. I am someone who stands here." And because it's that kind of a commitment, it has the power as a declaration to affect your future, to define your future, to say, "This is what we're going to be from now on."
And that's why these stands that they both take are so awesome.
A Critique? of Joshua
Ryan: I do have a critique of Joshua, actually.
Bryan: Okay,
Ryan: this is--this is a possible critique. We don't have all the data I would love to have, but it's more of a question. I wonder, could things have been better for Israel if Joshua did what Moses did?
So Joshua is living out the Moses pattern, and the people of his generation were faithful, but then you see pretty soon after, you get to the book of Judges,
right? And now we're lost. What if Joshua--who I always think of as a young man because that's what he is in the Ten
Commandments, but at this point, you know, and he's "Dare to stand like Joshua," he is like Caleb.
They are
old men. What if for those--all of those years, he was training someone up, and he handed the torch off, and now there's another leader that has that same commitment, who has seen it in the fire of battle. And, who was Joshua mentoring like Moses mentored him? it brings it home, right?
Who am I mentoring? Who's my legacy? Because I've had people invest in me. And also, who am I right now asking to mentor me because I still need it? it just really highlights that it's not just succession planning, but like that standing in the shadows of someone who's doing the work and partnering with them while they're still just a little ahead of you.
to show each other how it's done. Yeah,
Bryan: there's a real problem with the third generation in a lot of stories You've got someone who starts off really great and does a wonderful job at training the next person and that person is doing really awesome But just can't train up the next generation after them to do the same things There's a lot of different places in the Bible where you can see that kind of break down at the third generation I don't think about that as often as maybe I could Joshua's a great example But yeah, where's the baton at the end of his life?
Like who is he passing it off to and you kind of yeah You dog on the people in the beginning of judges for like forgetting it all who was really standing in the leadership position Yeah, that's tough. That is that
Finding Jesus in Joshua and Caleb
Bryan: is a really tough one.
Ryan:
Bryan: Yeah, so you're making this connection with Joshua back to Moses and of course Moses in his life is is so often Referred to as a type of Christ or a shadow of Christ and we could get into that But maybe it's a perfect example of a finding Jesus segment right about this time as we look at Joshua. We look at Caleb This is something I try to do in my Caleb lesson, thinking about Caleb You know, we're not just studying about Caleb.
We're studying about Jesus Jesus has these qualities these characteristics that Caleb demonstrated as having a different spirit as being someone who finished the faith and I I see Jesus very clearly in the life of Caleb someone who is courageous to stand in front of the entire group of people and say you all are wrong and I am I'm the person who knows That God is going to do what God is going to do successfully and I'm gonna stand with him and You know like in Hebrews 12 verse 2 where he because of the joy that was set before him endured the cross he is the ultimate finisher like he is the one who exemplifies that Capability that that Caleb had to take it all the way to the very end and I love to see Jesus in Caleb story because nobody nobody's gonna take on a giant bigger than the one that Jesus took over on the cross,
Ryan: Yeah. I like that. The ultimate finisher. Another way of saying that goes back to your point that he's the ultimate doer.
He got it done. He was acting like he did not stand by and watch our plight. The word Joshua, the name Joshua, which means the Lord saves, the Lord delivers, is what Jesus means. The Lord delivers.
Jesus' Hebrew name is
Bryan: you don't even have to look very far right to find to find Jesus in Joshua. He's right there in the name
Ryan: He's right there. He's in the name and he is is all about victory. He finishes that job, as you were saying, and Jesus brings the ultimate victory and leads us in the battle. It is possible, another conversation, that Jesus even was the commander of the Lord's army.
Because why would you have him take off his shoes and say, "This is holy ground and Joshua, bow down there," if it was just an angel? Don't worship an angel.
But, you know, there's some other conversations there. So, finding Jesus perhaps there, but certainly Jesus was the one who conquered Jericho. You know, Jesus was the one who conquered all of the land and ultimately conquered the forces of evil that was represented in all of
Bryan: I like all your spicy hot takes these days. I think it's great We should do a whole thing just about like hot takes and stuff because I think it's great I think it's so good like I I don't think about Jesus connection to the Old Testament I mean in that way like in that literal like Embodied way like why would Joshua be taking off his shoes in that case?
Hmm. That's interesting Yeah, no, I feel like you know as you get to well I was in Hebrews 12, but Hebrews 2 verse 10 that he's the captain of our salvation right Jesus. Jesus is the captain He's the he is the driver. He's the leader. He's the ultimate one in charge He's the front of house Savior, you know while also being in many ways the back of house Savior He was also the one who was who was sitting in Mary and Martha's house.
Just having a conversation with two two ladies You know, he was the one sitting behind at the at the well talking to the Samaritan woman I mean all these times where Jesus was back of house just doing the work quietly behind the scenes while also being Completely front of house. I think he's both of these guys, I don't think it's a stretch Even to think of him in the ways that we think of both Joshua and Caleb
Ryan: And because of him, as it said of Joshua, not one word of the good promises the Lord has made to us will fail. He is the amen. All will come to pass. Not that it says that about Joshua, but as it says of Joshua's work, that through Joshua he brought about all of these good promises. And everything that has ever been promised to us, Jesus is like, "I will make sure that happens."
And you can count on
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Bryan: Yeah, well, I think if we're gonna walk away with a challenge for any of these discussions I think that it would be helpful for us to just take in our season of life wherever we are take one of these examples of Joshua or Caleb and use them to Propel you into action, you know to be patient Maybe like Caleb was or to step up and take a leadership role or maybe to mentor somebody To take on your legacy someday.
Ryan: was cool to kind of learn from each other, each of us take a character and get into it and see where they kind of clash, where they're different, and all the ways that especially these two as a partnership work together to accomplish what God wanted.
Bryan: Yeah, I was In my sermon I was preaching this originally to a small church that has a lot of older members as a part of It and I found it really helpful just to think about Caleb and Joshua I mean you may make the same point about him They're these old guys right like and they've been around the block for a long time and to think about legacy to think about Passing the baton and if I can remember that 40 years from now I can remember that You know if I'm still alive or the Lord hasn't come yet Like if I'm if I can still remember this point to to stand up and to pass it along
your age is an asset if you can finish strong like Caleb and like Joshua, all
Ryan: love that. That's a great place to land. They took the stand, as for me and my house, and challenged everyone else, "Do this." They took the stand, "Give me this mountain." But that was not a new thing for them. They had been walking that walk all their life. So when you say it then, it has a different kind of resonance with everyone who hears you.
Bryan: this has been a really great and helpful conversation for me It's been fun to like review some of our sermons that we've done on this and of course We'll have those links to listen to those in the show notes. I think Joshua and Caleb together they're the dynamic duo, right?
They really are and they've got this way of just showing us how to follow God wholeheartedly both in our seasons of action and our front of house work and our seasons of Patiently waiting our back of house kind of work and this has been really helpful for me So thank you Ryan for just deciding that you were gonna preach on Joshua cuz that came out of the blue I didn't ask you to do that, but you were like game on let's do
Ryan: well, you know, it wasn't much of an ask. That was a lot of fun, and now I'm inspired to pull Caleb into my preaching too. So
Bryan: it.
Ryan: this was
Bryan: Cool Alright, so on our next episode we're gonna do something just a little bit different We're gonna miniaturize our episode. We're gonna make it super small if you're like man These episodes have been going really long lately. Don't worry on our next conversation We're gonna come out with what we're calling the Bible geeks mini and it's a I don't know like 20-minute Conversation on prayer and if you want us to get deep down into the hot takes and maybe some hacks We're gonna talk about that on the next conversation very quick.
Very short.
Ryan: We're shrinking it down. Fun size, as they say about the Halloween candy--candies that you
Bryan: Oh, man, the fun size is all over the place I love it. Alright, Thanks so much everyone for tuning in to the Bible geeks podcast You can find us on our website or you know on social media wherever we've got show notes for this episode in your podcast player Or on our website there as well If you want to reach out to us and ask us a question We would love to answer your question if you want to record something to include on a future show We've got a link on our page just for you to do that.
That would be awesome. We've got a lot of resources there to blog posts all kinds of stuff guided studies there If you're interested in Bible study at all share it with a friend or go dig into it yourself
And until the next episode everyone. May the Lord bless you and keep you.
Ryan: Shalom