“The Queen of Cleansing”
EPISODE 235
See How God Washes Your Sins Away
What’s the story with baptism? In Session 8 of our Square One series, we’re giving into the deep end of this important topic. From the Nintendo reset button to the profound transformations described in scripture, we’ve got it covered. We break down Romans 6:1-14 and explore how the story of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection becomes our story. Plus, we dive into Old Testament stories that foreshadow baptism. Listen along as we consider how God changes our identity through baptism and prepares us for a new life in Christ. Hope you enjoy the episode!
Takeaways
The Big Idea: Baptism is both an ending and a new beginning, as we die and are born again.
This Week's Challenge: Throughout the week anytime you use water to clean something, think about how God brings a spiritual transformation in baptism beyond anything we could clean with water alone.
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Bryan: I am married to a person who takes such great pride in being able to get stains out. Do you know this about Sharilyn?
Ryan: I didn't know that know, that. No, she's the queen of cleansing!
Bryan: Well, hello everyone, and welcome to the Bible Geeks Podcast. This is episode 235. I'm Bryan Schiele,
I'm Ryan Joy.
Bryan: and thanks so much everyone for tuning in.
Reflecting on the Arts and Crafts Challenge
Bryan: Before we get into session eight, we're gonna follow up with our last discussion in session seven, where we had this little, arts and crafts style challenge to draw a line down the middle of a piece of paper.
On the left-hand side, we're supposed to write all the things that are hard, hurtful, or wrong that we're ready to make a break from and let go. How'd you do with that challenge, Ryan?
Ryan: I thought it was kind of a challenging challenge. I thought it was a... I thought it was one of those challenges Like, you can't coast through it. You know, it forces you to really work with yourself a little bit. I think the 2 Corinthians 12, examine yourself to see if you're in the faith kind of thing, of just checking in and approve all things and hold on to the good kind of an idea, anyway, yeah, I thought it was really good. made my list. I found it helpful. I don't know how much we want to go into our lists here, but how about you? How did that go?
Bryan: See, that's the thing. I think if you're leading this discussion with somebody, I don't think you should really ask for the specifics of somebody's list
Ryan: yeah, that's not where we are.
if they want to share, absolutely. That's good, and you want to be ready for that.
Bryan: I think so for sure. as I'm writing down on the left-hand side of my paper, all I'm seeing is like lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, boastful pride of life kind of stuff. In activities like this, it's like,
Ryan: Those are the categories.
It's
Bryan: they are. But I
Ryan: that's real.
Bryan: real sense of like, these are the areas I'm coloring in my life with pride.
And these are the areas I'm trying to blaze a new trail with my lust. And like, oh man, it's just so hard. It's so hard to see all of this stuff down on paper. It's like, nope, don't like any of that. Which, you know, we'll get into in a future challenge. But for now, that paper sits kind of haunting me or, you know, shouting at me saying, do something about this.
Ryan: it's powerful. And, you know, I think of that passage in Romans 2, "You who teach others, do you teach yourself?" And I think of all the things that I'm constantly trying to teach, you know, especially my kids. I mean, teach the church and teach others, but, you know, about complaining and arguing and self-justification and anger and some of that kind of stuff that maybe somehow flies under the radar sometimes whenever it is something that I need to come to the Lord continually in repentance and acknowledgement and allow that change to happen in me. So, yeah, I think it's a great exercise, really
Session Eight: The Story of Baptism
Bryan: All right, so let's move on here to session eight. So the question we're asking here in this discussion, you should guess it 'cause our last conversation was all about it. What's the story of baptism? there's a lot to be said about baptism and, being members of the church, being people who have heard a lot, a lot, a lot of discussion about baptism.
We've got a lot to say about baptism.
So many a lots.
All right, so let's get into part one here where we introduce this whole thing with a video game hook, then we will get into our icebreaker question.
Square One - 8: This is Square One. What's the story with baptism? If you grew up playing video games, it was common to play the game for a while, get frustrated that you weren't making the progress you wanted, and hit the reset button. Just start over! And like the ignition switch on your car, the refresh button on your browser, or the power button on any other tech gadget, rebooting is a decisive action that gives us a clean start.
In real life, those game-changing reboot moments are rare, but even more important. Think how a life resets when you say "I do" or have your first child. Or maybe you've had an eye-opening experience or realization that changed the way you see things and reset how you make decisions. And as we'll see, our most important reset comes in an act of rebirth, as we bury our old self and rise to new life.
So what's a moment you'll always remember as the time your life changed or hit the reset button?
Personal Moments of Transformation
Bryan: Okay, so Ryan, I know we were both Nintendo era kids, but what moment will you always remember about a time your life changed or when you hit the reset button?
Ryan: Oh, man, you can't start out by talking about Nintendo and then not let talk about my Nintendo days, but I'll move on since that's not the question. [laughter] I think of the decision moments, and as I was reflecting on this
it's not the wedding or even the baptism that I first went to. It's the moment when I decided to ask Adrian to marry me.
It's the moment I decided to be baptized, to become a Christian. Those are these hinges that I was reflecting on. I remember going out to the middle of the desert. I spent a morning before dawn praying to God and just working through, " the decision to ask Adrian to marry me?"
moment. Of course, I remember the proposal, and I remember the wedding and everything, but same thing. Even after I was baptized, then I remember the moment that I, later on, years after, about four years after being baptized, when I was 16, when I was working through my faith again, trying to decide, "Am I going to really commit myself again, all in to the Lord and follow Him for the rest of my life?"
Really studying and searching and thinking and then saying to God, "Yeah, what am I waiting for? I know who you are, Jesus. I know who you are, God. I will follow you." Yeah, those decision-type things, deciding to preach full-time again was another moment. What do you think about? What do you think of these life-changing, reset-button moments?
If you tell me, "The moment I beat Legend of Zelda," I'm going to feel really foolish about my deep
Bryan: mine has to do with an important event in my life as well. my realization did not come prior to marrying my wife, but after I married my wife. And I will vividly remember the moment that I moved in to her house from my parents' house after the wedding.
And the day after that, about 24 hours, I think I was in like the weirdest funk because it was just all hitting me. Like I was finally realizing, oh, things are different now. You know, it's like, not in a bad way, of course, in a good way, but like, oh boy, I will never live in my parents' house again.
It was just such a, you know, I mean, everybody goes through that from time to time. I know my wife is actually going through that right now with our daughter who's, graduating eighth grade. She's moving into high school and it's like a kind of a tense situation in our house right now.
'Cause it's like, mom's dealing with all the feels right now 'cause her little girl's moving on to high school. you know, transitions are hard. And then after they happen, I think for a lot of us and for me in this moment, that's when it becomes real and it starts to hit a little bit differently.
Ryan: So, yours wasn't the wedding either.
Bryan: it was
Ryan: the day after, as you moved into your new life. You broke up with the past, with your singleness. You became a married man, and then whenever you realized, "Oh, this is life. This is what it is," and you're working through--
Bryan: I died and was buried.
Ryan: But you were born to new life and have been blessed ever since.
Bryan: Big moments.
Ryan: I see it.
Yeah, big moments.
Purpose and Meaning of Baptism
Bryan: right, so let's move on to part two here in our discussion where we get into it a little bit more. We'll get into our purpose here in this discussion. We'll find out something that Jesus has to say on this topic of baptism. We'll get into our big idea and then ask each other the reach out question.
Square One - 8: Let's get into it and see how God washes your sins away. Simply put, Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." But when we talk about baptism, let's define the term.
In the Greek, the word means to wash, plunge, or to immerse. How does Jesus wash away our sins? When we're plunged or immersed in the waters of baptism. John 3:16 might be the most famous Bible passage, but do you know who Jesus was talking to in that conversation? A Jewish ruler once came to Jesus in the cover of darkness, professing his belief that Jesus was a teacher from God.
And without beating around the bush, Christ said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." To say that Nicodemus was confused would be an understatement. But what do you think of when you hear that phrase, "born again"? Most people today probably think about someone being pretty religious or having a lot of Bible knowledge.
So why would he say that to Nicodemus of all people? He was very religious. He knew the scriptures. So being born again has to mean something else, right? Fortunately, we don't have to guess. As Jesus went on to explain, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
To be born again has something to do with the water and something to do with the Spirit. They're not two separate births. Peter urged in Acts 2.38, "Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." So here's the big idea. Baptism is both an ending and a new beginning as we die and are born again.
From our previous conversation, we saw that repentance is us dying to our old life. What's next? Burial. We don't bury people who are alive, hopefully not, but we bury those who have died. In the same way, you can't be born again unless you die first. Before we get too deep, it might be helpful to check in.
What's your experience with baptism? Whether your own or someone else's? What's your take on its purpose and meaning? What is your experience with baptism, whether your own or someone else's? What's your take on its purpose or meaning? what do you think about baptism, Ryan?
Ryan: Yeah.
Big subject? Yes. My experience with it. So, this came up again here recently. I just recently baptized someone who had been immersed earlier in their life and an older friend who had followed Christ for many years, but she decided she didn't really understand whenever she was baptized that she was going through the motions to basically please her in-laws.
so we studied about it, we talked about it, and we went down and baptized her. And she told me the other day how Her whole life feels different since that moment several weeks ago, that
she was living in this crisis of doubt and of concern. And so it is important to know what you're doing and why you're doing it and that kind of thing.
I wouldn't want to sow doubt with anyone. But
I had an opposite experience, maybe this is going into it more than needed, where I--laughs] So I was baptized when I was 12, I think. it was well explained to me. It was just fundamentals, but it was well explained to me, and I got it. But when I was 19, I remember I called up one of my best friends at midnight, and I was having a similar kind of a, "Hey, I don't think I got it. Can you come and baptize me?"
And he did, and I have since come to the conclusion that that was me stuck in my head and not really understanding that I understood, basically, trying to expect too much of that moment of baptism and that whenever I was 12 or 13, that I got it. I got what I needed to, and I committed, even though I've learned a lot more about what it means to follow Christ.
And I remember I was so stuck in, "Do I believe enough?" when I was 12. And realizing, "No, I believed enough to commit to Jesus and to say I want to follow Him, and that's what it's about."
Bryan: I think we do put a lot of weight on that moment, as rightly we should. It is important, especially as we start thinking about the commitment we're making, being united with Christ like Him in His death, you look to all these examples in the Bible about those who were baptized, and some of them didn't know very much at all. Likesome people who are baptized today are baptized with a lot more backstory than those did in the first century.
Ryan: think this is-- Underlying some of this is the conversation around grace that is so important that I think that
many, probably like myself, did not fully get-- needed more teaching to properly appreciate and trust in grace. I think I understood everything I needed to know to be saved and all of that, but the doubts come because sometimes we put too much pressure on ourselves like it's all about us.
It's all about, "Do I believe enough? Did I do it right? Did I think it right? Did I--?" You know, and Does it matter what you are putting faith in? Absolutely. You need to understand what this is, or other-- There's just, you know, getting in a bathtub or whatever. It does matter to know I am dying with Christ, that it is Jesus who is saving me in this and washing away my sins.
But, it is a work of God, and that is the most important thing to get is when you go into the water, before that, you are not in Christ, and then you are buried and die and brought into his death, and as we're going to read, you are brought out of it into a new life through his resurrection, through his power and his blood.
Bryan: So good. All right, so yeah, let's move on to our third part here in this discussion where we'll read a little bit from Romans chapter six.
Reading from Romans 6
Bryan: We're in Romans six, buckle up.
Square One - 8: Let's turn to Romans 6, which starts with the heart of the gospel, Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. But there's a twist. It explains how we become participants of this story through faith.
It teaches the meaning of baptism, through which Christ's story can become our story. So read Romans 6, 1-14 together to understand how we die to sin and come into union with Christ. After reading, take some time to discuss it. How does the story of Christ become our story in baptism?
Bryan: All right, so we're gonna read through Romans six verses one to 14 together.
Go ahead and start this out and I'll jump in midway
Ryan: "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means. How can we who die to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried, therefore, with him by baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from
Now
Bryan: if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again. Death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died, he died to sin."
once for all, but the life he lives, he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life and your members to God as instruments for righteousness or sin will have no dominion over you since you are not under law, but under grace.
Isn't that what we were just talking about? I love the way this ties it all up together. Okay, so the question here that we asked, how does this story of Christ become our story in baptism? And I just wanted to highlight here this word united in death. It's a weird phrase, I think, to think through. We are currently, our family is getting ready to go to a funeral for a loved one of ours.
And it's a strange thought that, death is usually considered a separation. You know, this is a separation from this person out of my life. Yet in baptism, we are uniting with Jesus. And, it's death that actually brings us closer together in union. And,like he says here in verse five, "For if we have been united with him in a death like his, "we shall certainly be united with him "in a resurrection like his."
And that idea that, we're always carrying about with us in our body, like Paul talks about the death of Jesus so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. Our lives are given over to Jesus and we're putting ourselves to death all the time. Our story becomes his story and we unite with him, of course, not only in that burial, but in the resurrection. And that's the whole idea here, is if you want to be raised like Jesus was raised, you certainly must be buried like Jesus was buried after having put to death the old man.
I think Romans 6 is just rich, but I think it ties it all together very well, what we're trying to say here.
Ryan: you're saying makes you think of so many comments of Jesus that Paul is building on here, right? Like, you know, he who wants to gain his life must lose his life and take up your cross. if you want to be with me, take up your cross and follow me. Deny yourself. Like, these are ways of saying the same thing of what it means to die with Jesus.
But the underlying principle, as you're kind of underlying with your statement "united in death," is in Christ. All of this is about being in union with Christ. And we know that we can't save ourselves. We need someone who could die for us, who could raise for us first and make the way. So how do we then become part of that where his death represents us, where his resurrection gives life to us?
this tells that story that he is our representative, which is the story of the Messiah throughout the Old Testament into the New Testament, that there is someone who is going to fight for us, who is going to be the Lord's anointed in this way where he takes on the sins, Isaiah 53. also, you think of the Lord's anointed before that, David, Who goes and represents all of Israel in battling against Goliath. And when he defeats Goliath, the people have defeated the Philistines. There's this storyline throughout that Jesus is dying. We need to get into his death so that that death is our death. We need to get into that burial so that that burial is our burial and that that resurrection is ours.
And this tells us that it's through faith and through repentance and through us putting ourselves under the leadership of Jesus in obedience. But the moment and the acting out of that is in the waters of baptism.
Bryan: so cool. Of course, I just hope even a sliver of, what we're talking about here will become an aha moment for somebody, you know, reading through Romans 6, maybe for the first time.
Ryan: Oh, it is about to get much nerdier,
Bryan: gonna get so
nerdy.
Old Testament Foreshadowing of Baptism
Bryan: Let's move into part four here in this conversation, where we go a little bit deeper, where we tell the story of baptism using an interesting lens of Nicodemus and his lack of knowledge of the Old Testament.
Square One - 8: Ready to go deeper?
When Nicodemus came to Jesus late at night, asking some deep questions, Jesus addressed his confusion by piling on more hard truths. He stumped him by saying we must be born again, that is, born of water and the Spirit. Nicodemus was completely lost. But Jesus expected Nicodemus to know the meaning behind being born of water and the Spirit.
Let's look at the scriptures to see the backstory Nicodemus missed about being born again in baptism. Think about Noah's story in Genesis 6-7. The floodwaters brought both judgment and renewal, saving Noah's family. God created a fresh start while washing away the old world. He used something so powerful and destructive, the water, to carry them through the danger to a brand new beginning.
Peter speaks of Noah's story and then adds, "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Think about the Israelites escaping from Egypt by crossing through the Red Sea on dry land in Exodus 14.
God parted the waters to separate the people from the enslaving forces of their past, drowning the pursuing Egyptian army while leading the Israelites to freedom. Passing through these waters marked a clear break from their old life of bondage in Egypt into a new chapter of freedom under God's guidance.
Paul says that was a kind of baptism. And we see a similar scene when the people pass through the Jordan River to leave the wilderness behind as they entered the promised land of Canaan. Speaking of the Jordan River, think about the story of Naaman the leper in 2 Kings 5. It wasn't because the water itself was special, but because dipping in it seven times was the specific, seemingly simple, act of obedience God commanded through the prophet Elisha.
Despite Naaman's initial pride and expectation of something more dramatic, eventually he humbled himself to listen to God's instructions. And he was healed. So the Lord's methods for salvation might not be what we anticipate. So the waters can represent salvation, but they can also be cleansing, like with Naaman.
After God led Israel out of Egypt, He gave them priests to serve before Him in His temple. But priests needed to wash in water to enter the Lord's presence and serve Him. And today, Christians serve as God's priests after we wash away our sins in baptism. In the water, we're cleansed by Jesus' death. These are just a few examples Nicodemus might have missed.
As we read earlier, we were buried therefore with Him by baptism into death in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. So here's the big question. Do you see how God changes our identity in the waters of baptism?
Bryan: Okay, so that was a lot, but here's the big question. Do you see how God changes our identity in the waters of baptism?
That's what this is all about. Nothing special in the water, but do you see how God does that work for us?
Ryan: do see it, Bryan. I do see it.
I get it. It's so cool to see it play out throughout. And that was a good sampling of the foreshadowing of baptism, but we could certainly spend more time. But what I think comes from this, is that you start to answer questions and meet objections without having to make it into an argument, like where you're pushing and there's pushback and you're having to debate or something.
Not that that's never profitable, but a lot of times if you're debating with the person you're trying to convert, you can skip over that, then you can create more of an opening 'cause once you start to take a position, once they start to take a position and argue against you, hardens something and makes it less, there to be less listening.
So what this does is like the why question, why must I be baptized? What's the purpose or the meaning of baptism? And some people say, well, it's just an outward show of an inward faith. It doesn't have any real significance, but it's just representative. And when you start to see in Romans 6 and in all these examples we just looked at, we see, no, there is a destruction.
There's a judgment. There is a new life. I mean, thinking of Noah, thinking of the Exodus, thinking of all these things, there is a cleansing that allows us to be before God as we see in the priests and Naaman. So there's a purpose that's clear that this is for the forgiveness of sins, for salvation, but then also the how becomes pretty clear as we watch all of this play out, seeing the burial, seeing the immersion of the whole world in these waters and that kind of thing.
So these two common questions start to get worked out without ever having to
take them head on. Again, not that you can't take them
head on if that is needed, but there's a context for it now that you can work
with through the story of the whole Bible.
Bryan: Yeah. -
I am married to a person who takes such great pride in being able to get stains out. Do you know this about Sharilyn She is Like
Ryan: know, that No, she's the queen of
Bryan: She loves it when somebody is able to notice the hard work she does in making something look clean and new, I'll give you a perfect example. We had an oven repair person come out like a couple of weeks ago, and they looked at the oven and they said, this is the cleanest oven I have ever seen.
How often do you use it? And she said, every day. And the guy was like, wow. And like, you know, you can ask her, she would absolutely agree with me. Like she loves it when people notice how much she likes to keep things clean. And, you mentioned the picture of marriage and how marriage is a very similar parallel to our relationship with God.
And of course, Ephesians talks about that as well. But also you think about this idea of God wanting to clean us and wash us and to present us to himself. he talks about that being done with the bride, washing and cleansing her and presenting the bride to the bridegroom. It's like,this is what God wants.
He wants us to be clean. He wants us to be washed. He wants us to be new and presented before him. And that is what baptism is doing, washing and cleansing. And this moment, like I think there is a power in having this moment of baptism, just as there was a power in having the people pass through, the dry land of the Red Sea.
faith building happening there. There is trust happening there. When we are able to, see the working of God, not that we were able to save ourselves through those waters or anything, but when we have seen the working of God, I think that really does put a stake in the ground and said, yes, this is a moment, this happened.
And this is something I can hang my hat on. not that we hang our hat on our work, but of course we hang our hat on what God has done for us. And I think without baptism, we might all be sort of looking around and being like, are you sure? Am I really a, you know, and I think that would be a real tendency more so than it is.
Ryan: that's an important point. mean, I think that's what Paul is doing in Romans 6 is he's saying, you have been baptized. That changed everything.
Remember that? That is the moment. there has been a change in me and I must stand by that.
I must stand in that. I am a new creature. As we said earlier,
my identity has changed. I belong to the Lord now.
Bryan: Yeah, I have so much we could say, but I do appreciate going back and looking at these connections from the Old Testament and, you know, just seeing what God is doing and what he's pointing us to. And this isn't like something in the New Testament that just popped out of nowhere. It's like, wait, where's baptism?
Where has baptism been all of this time? It's like, no, this has been in the Bible for a very long time. So let's move on here to part five, where we get into our next discussion. and we will offer our closing blessing.
Square One - 8: We've
Challenge and Closing Thoughts
Square One - 8: talked a lot in this conversation about the powerful salvation God provides with water.
So throughout the week, anytime you use water to clean something, think about how God brings a spiritual transformation in baptism beyond anything we could clean with water alone. As you start the next conversation, take a moment to talk about what you noticed. To follow Jesus, we're called to put to death our old sinful lives and to let God wash them away in the burial of baptism.
In our next conversation, we'll consider the third step in Jesus' example, resurrection to a new life. The Spirit has a great work to do in our lives as we bear good fruit and walk in faith, hope, and love. We'll see how Christ teaches us a new way to live and leaves us His example to follow. Since a disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.
May the Lord bless us with open hearts to receive His invitation to have our sins washed
Bryan: Okay, so the challenge that we had there was basically anytime you use water, think about how God brings a spiritual transformation in baptism. Beyond anything we could clean with water alone, I will just say, my lovely wife will have no problem with this challenge. I do not clean things as often as maybe she does, but this is cool.
You know, thinking about this opportunity to just remind ourselves and spur ourselves on to thinking a little bit more spiritually.
Ryan: said. It's a little break from the heavy duty list work that we're going to get back to again later. So this is just, just notice, just notice water as Sharilyn cleans your oven. Notice how clean she can get it. And yeah, I mean, it is an opportunity to reflect on the fact that this is a
part of everyday life that God is using to teach us and bring the transformation in a profoundly
spiritual
A Closer Look: Thoughts on Leading the Conversation
Bryan: All right, so let's get into a closer look on our thoughts here on leading this conversation.
Bryan: All right, so we've got the Away team assembled and we are back here in the beginning of this conversation to part one. maybe not everybody started out playing video games, but I think everyone can feel the frustration of their browser locking up or their phone doing a silly thing or something where they have to reboot it and start over again as the IT person in my family who my whole life is centered on fixing their tech problems.
have had to tell people to reboot it a lot. And, maybe a helpful thing for people to think about these reboot moments in their own life.
Ryan: Yeah. And that is the kind of the central truth at the heart of it is that there are moments in everyone's life where the whole context, I mean, even your whole identity starts to shift in some fundamental way. Now I'm a married person. Now I'm a father. Now I'm a graduate of this college.
or whatever you are. And so, you know, that happens. But as we hint at, there is a bigger one, there is a bigger change than any other change that we've talked about. And it uses as its metaphor, the
moment we were born and the moment we die, that's how
big of a change this is.
This is a moment you die, and a moment you raised to new
Bryan: Speaking of being born again, that leads us into part two in our discussion where we talked, you know, about our purpose here that we wanna see how God washes our sins away. I wanted to make sure that it was very clear. Like we did not beat around the bush. Mark 16, 16 had to be right up front.
So it's like, we're gonna try to be super clear the instruction, the commands, to believe and be baptized.
But I think so often maybe people don't understand what being born again is really all about.
And of course, as Jesus is telling Nicodemus to be born again, he's not telling him like be a very religious person or, know the scriptures really well. And that means you'll be born again 'cause that's what Nicodemus already was. So he needed something different. He needed something more than that.
And that's where Jesus talks about being born again, born of water and of the spirit. And so this focus is really in this conversation about water mostly, being born of water and of the spirit are part and parcel. They're linked together here. They're not two separate births. It's all one thing.
Ryan: love when we can grab ahold of something that people are familiar with, like John 3, 16, and like the phrase born again. And I thought you did a great job in writing that of, of saying, Hey, you have some ideas about what that means, but Jesus is the one that coined the phrase, what does
he mean by it?
And that was a good lead in to that reach out question and the discussion that comes from it,
Bryan: the reach out
question here is super
helpful because there are a lot of
misunderstandings and misconceptions about what
baptism is. And it's perfectly fine to get all of that out on the table here. That is exactly why we wanted to check in in this moment. Like, what is your experience with baptism?
This might be an opportunity for them to talk about being baptized as a child, or, you know, if they've seen someone else, be baptized in some, church service or something like that. These are great opportunities to hear someone's story and just to listen. Not, please don't be overly judgmental.
Of course, you're not gonna be that way. But just listening to the way that they've come to think about baptism so that as we get into this discussion in Romans 6, and then later on in our conversation about the Old Testament baptism, this hopefully will help elaborate, I suppose, on what true baptism is.
Ryan: This is not the moment to correct them. I would say generally this, it's going to, you want the scales to fall from their eyes, so to speak, as they are seeing how it plays out and what it all means. And this will not be the only time that baptism comes up in the study, this whole study is about that. And then it's going to keep showing up in future studies.
So,
they're going to have opportunity to talk about it, but it will need to be fleshed out
and thought through over the
course of these studies as you
Bryan: Yeah, for sure. So then we move into part three in the discussion where we have this very dense reading in Romans And I love the way reading begins. Like, are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? Especially after the conversation we just had about repentance.
But it then goes on to talk about how we unite with Christ in death, in his baptism, and in his
Ryan: we have built to this moment, we have emphasized again and again, Jesus comes his perfect life, his death, his burial, his resurrection.
his reign. And so you see, we know the story and now we are starting to integrate that story into ourselves, but how do we do it? And it is, I think a pretty hard to miss, hard to argue with hard to like walk away from and have a different belief about baptism that it doesn't really matter. It's, it's, you know, it's some irrelevant act once you see, no, this is about the gospel. you know, it's, it's easy to think of it. Well, that's some right that churches do or something. No, this is about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. And once you get that, once you get the, that it is connected to
the story, then it's, It's just clear the importance of it and what it
Bryan: Yeah. And so that leads us into part four here where we talk about the Old Testament stories about baptism. And at the end of all of this, we will again summarize Romans 6, verse four. So we will come back to this story again and try to make sure it's very clear. Like, these stories connect us with the story of the gospel and all of these things like, the flood and the crossing of the Red Sea and, you know, the story of Naaman and even the priests and the washing that they would do in the temple and their sacrifice.
Hopefully some of these things will be familiar enough. maybe be ready to talk a little bit more about each of these small stories.
Ryan: you can check in, like,
So here's the big question. Do you see how God changes our identity in the
waters of baptism, how we become a new person
before God in that act of obedience?
Bryan: And we just got done talking about the newness of life aspect of that. So, you know, from Romans 6, verse four. So I think that sets it up nicely. But then also, you know, a
little bit lost, we will, in the next conversation, continue this discussion about newness of life and what it means to then rise up from those waters, a new person, a new creature, changed in our affections and our passions and all the things that we, move on to do with the rest of our life.
So, this is not the last time we will have a discussion about, who we are coming up out of those waters. So,leading into that discussion, we've got a challenge for them to do over the week. I feel like there's an opportunity for people to, just having noticed everyday events and connecting them with spiritual things is a great primer, maybe for likeliving a daily life of discipleship at some point, if they choose to do that.
' Cause that's what I think we should all be doing. We should all be seeing God and seeing his activity and being reminded of his word in just the most mundane kinds of things.
Ryan: it's likeyou own a Volkswagen bug, you see them everywhere. Like once you start
looking for it, yeah. You start to see it everywhere. And then you're
constantly deepened in your reflection about what baptism means and the importance of it.
Bryan: then we've mentioned multiple times, we are looking forward in our next conversation to being,
you know, focused on the change think this is hopefully a helpful conversation. And again, somebody may, as a part of this discussion, really be serious about being baptized at this moment. Thumbs up, like right on. I mean, we did not design this moment to be the decision point, but if this is where they know, then this is where it needs to happen.
Ryan: I kind of think of all of these moments where we're teaching about what to do as the Ethiopian eunuch chariot ride, where they have lots of opportunities to spontaneously step up and volunteer this for themselves so that if that happens, great. But there's only one time that we are putting it to them as a confrontation, really later on where it has been bubbling up
for a long time as a moment where we say, okay, are you ready to become a Christian?
You know what to do? Are you going to follow him?
Bryan: And I think that's a good opportunity to again, state the way these three go together. the idea of repentance, number seven as the death and then baptism here as the burial, though it also includes the resurrection. But the next time we're going to talk about new life part, like the resurrection part of it.
Ryan: Once we obey him, he's going to be doing a work of grace in us. So the next one really is about grace.
Bryan: And I'm excited about it. And I'm excited to
see how all this stuff leads to session 10, 'cause
we've never really done all of these things end to end
leading to session 10.
And man, this has been a long episode. We've got a lot of stuff to say about baptism.
Final Remarks and Farewell
Bryan: So thank you so much, everyone, for
sticking with us. A lot, a lot, a lot. So this has been episode 235 of the Bible Geeks podcast. You can find us on our website at biblegeeks.fm.
You can find show notes for this episode in your podcast player of choice, or at biblegeeks.fm/235. You can also get in touch with us on our website. Find all of these sessions at biblegeeks.fm/squareone.
And until the next episode, everyone, may the Lord bless you and keep you.
Ryan: Shalom.