“What Were You Talking About?”
EPISODE 231
Believe Jesus is God's Son
We’re back for Session 4 of our Square One series. We tackled the huge question: "Why believe in Jesus?" How does the historical evidence for Jesus' resurrection, like the empty tomb and the disciples' transformed lives, provide a solid foundation for faith? Is blind faith a thing? We dug into 1 Corinthians 15, where Paul details eyewitness accounts, including over 500 people seeing Jesus alive, and shared how skeptics often agree on key historical facts surrounding these events. If Jesus really rose from the dead, what does that mean for you?
Takeaways
The Big Idea: We can trust in Jesus because of the historical fact that he rose from the dead.
This Week's Challenge: Take some time to write down your thoughts to the question, "What does it mean if Jesus raised from the dead?"
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Introduction and Welcome
Ryan: what were you talking about here?
Many of the things you wrote, as Peter says, are difficult, which I would like to get some clarification on.
Bryan: Well, hello everyone and welcome to the Bible Geeks podcast. This is episode 231. I'm Bryan Schiele
Ryan: I'm Ryan Joy.
Bryan: and thanks so much everyone for tuning in.
Follow-Up: Read Luke 24:1-35
Bryan: We are back here for session number four of our square one series. We're rolling through it, man. and before we get in to session four here of our really important discussions surrounding our faith and developing our faith.
Let's follow up with the conversation we had last time which was to read Luke 24 verses 1 to 35 and when you read through that as a result of that challenge from the last episode, what did you think about that verse? Bryan. Yeah.
Ryan: Well, it was, you know, it's one of my favorite passages. These guys hearing the story of the Bible explained by Jesus and then their hearts are burning within them as they realize he opened the scriptures to them. And I
recently preached on the story of the Bible, like the thread that we talked about there, and one of my friends brought up to me, actually Michael who has been on the podcast, Michael Eldridge, he said, "You know, usually you hear other people talking about Jesus as the fulfillment of this, but this was the authorized autobiography of Jesus talking about himself through the story of the Old Testament scriptures."
So I thought that was a good way to put that, and boy, to just be, a fly sitting on one of those two men's shoulder hearing all of that would be pretty
Bryan: love the idea that Jesus was able to tell his own story like you're talking about there and I think most specifically though in this story I was yet again struck by the fact that these men got to tell the story of Jesus to Jesus himself which was so cool. It's like I love the way that they were able to express that they had faith you know they really they saw him as what they were hoping to be the Messiah and they they heard this evidence and they understood what had happened but they didn't really connect all the dots the way that they needed to and you know maybe is a little harsh when he referred to them as foolish in his response but I think it's a really powerful verse that helps us to see that Jesus really is the thread throughout the whole Bible.
Yeah.
Ryan: what a great way to connect the last discussion with this one, right? in the last discussion we saw Jesus as that thread and connected the dots, and here Jesus is explaining that, but he's explaining that as a risen man who
Bryan: Yeah.
Ryan: has conquered death, and that's what we're gonna be talking about
Why Believe in Jesus?
Bryan: 4 here of square one is really addressing this basic question why should you believe in Jesus? You know what is it that is so compelling for us to believe in Jesus and you know just all the stories that we read throughout the scriptures about him what is it that's the most powerful thing to walk away from to shore up your faith or to develop your faith I think for the first time?
Ryan: Yeah, because conversion requires conviction. It doesn't mean we're banishing doubt, that you'll never have a question or, you know, struggle to think through it. God doesn't need us to have perfect faith, you know, he talks about if you have faith like a mustard seed, he is mighty to work. The strength is not in our faith, ultimately, but in God.
But in order to have a relationship with Christ, we do have to put our trust in him, give our loyalty to him, and that's all about faith. And it begins with examining why should I call him Lord? Why should I follow him? And the main answer that the New Testament gives, that Paul gives in his sermons, that Peter gives in his sermons, that, everything we look to says over and over again is, "He rose from the dead."
And so this session is designed to bridge that need to help people see one solid reason, to believe in Jesus.
Bryan: Jesus' resurrection is very well supported if you approach it with the historical method.
Ryan: So I'm excited to get into it from there.
Icebreaker: Historical Figures
Bryan: all right so part one of this conversation will kick this thing off with a hook and we'll get into our icebreaker question
Part 1: Kickoff
Square One - 4: This is Square One. "Why Should I Believe in Jesus?" Time travel movies tease us with the idea that you could step into a phone booth, doorway, or sports car and experience history for yourself. Play piano with Mozart, battle Genghis Khan, or listen to Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Maybe if we could see these people with our own eyes, they'd become more real to us than reading about them in a history textbook.
But until the laws of physics are broken, we're left to witness the past events through the historical method, interpreting artifacts to piece together the story. And as we'll get into, those same rules apply when we study Jesus. But before we get there, if you could spend the day with one historical figure, who would it be and what would you do?
Part 1 Discussion
Bryan: okay so the icebreaker question there was if you could spend the day with one historical figure who would it be and what would you do
Ryan: I would say, you know, how about our 2023 bracket winner, you know, the favorite figure of faith, Paul, or maybe his buddy and one of my personal favorites, Barnabas, I would go with one of those probably. I think Paul would be really fascinating to talk theology with and to pick apart, you know, what were you talking about here?
Many of the things you wrote, as Peter says, are difficult, which I would like to get some clarification on. But yeah, I mean, what a thrill that would be to tear up some flatbread with, you know,sit down in one of his tents and talk to Paul and maybe if Barnabas wants to join us for dinner that day too, that'd be great.
What about you? Who would you talk to?
Bryan: I mean non biblical characters I'd have to think someone maybe like I don't know Walt Disney like maybe
Ryan:
Bryan: he could show me around one of his parks or something like that I was kind of thinking like a biblical character that would be interesting to spend the day with might have been Adam before the fall
Ryan: Oh,
Bryan: a lot surrounding that right like if I could get into a time machine and go back would be a super interesting way I mean aside from the being naked part but like it'd be a super interesting way of you know experiencing the world in the garden at a time when like the world would never be that way again what would it be like what did they do like hanging around the garden naming stuff I don't know it just seems like it'd be an interesting day
Ryan: I see what you did. You made really the character paradise itself, right? To go back and which is, yeah, that's, that is a correct answer for sure.
I love
Bryan: all right so that is our first section here let's get into our second part where we really hit the thing a little bit harder where we get into our purpose we look at something that Jesus said and then we get into our big idea and reach out question
Part 2: Getting Into It
Square One - 4: So let's travel back to the first century and develop our faith in Jesus, God's Son. Why should you believe in Jesus, someone you've never seen? How can you trust what the Bible has to say about him? This isn't about taking a leap of faith or acting on blind faith, but as the Bible describes it, "Faith is the reality of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen."
And arguably, the biggest proof of what we haven't seen is how Jesus came back from the dead just three days after his death on the cross. Everyone in Jesus' inner circle had a hard time accepting the reports that he came back from the dead, refusing to believe unless he saw in his hands the mark of the nails.
But Thomas' doubts melted away the following week when Jesus invited him to touch his nail-scarred hands. Though Thomas needed evidence, Jesus said, "Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed." It's not wrong to want to see for ourselves, but at some point we have to decide what we believe about the evidence available.
So here's the big idea. We can trust in Jesus because of the historical fact that he rose from the dead. Miraculous events in the Bible are often called "signs." They pointed to something, proving that the person doing the miracle was trustworthy and that God authorized what they said or did. Of all Jesus' recorded miracles, none stands out like the day his tombstone rolled away three days after his death.
That event echoes through time, leaving us a powerful sign that's hard to argue against. And as John said, "Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book, but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."
So what role do you think evidence should play in our faith?
Role of Evidence in Faith
Ryan: All right, Bryan. So what role do you think evidence should play in our faith? Can we base everything on evidence? How does that work? What is the interplay there?
Bryan: yeah I I mean think for me I look around and I see a lot of mushiness when it comes to like the facts and truth because I don't know like everybody seems to have their own version of truth
Ryan: Fake news?
Bryan: if it's fake news and all these other things but like man I think for us to be able to have a good answer a ready answer for the hope that's within us or to be a good quote-unquote faith defender I think I need to have good reasoning and sound logic and that's an engineer speaking here like I I really don't feel like I could make a compelling case to somebody based on feelings and a lot of mushy kinds of logic that people like to use these days I feel like it's important to have reasons and solid evidence and so I think the evidence is there and and that's part of what I think is so powerful about the Bible is that it's pointing us to the evidence it's presenting it all before us I mean it could you know very clearly just be like and you should trust us because these things actually happened and we won't tell you how we know that but that's just what happened like you know God could have said I will give you no information here but you just better trust me I need to have that kind of confidence that what I'm doing is the right thing to be doing and I I need to be able to lean on facts and evidence you know not not over much but there's a level of trust there so I guess maybe with everything it sounds like you could let the pendulum swing too far to one direction or the other but that balanced view of what's true and what's right comes when we just know that God is who he says he is and trust him but also look at the evidence that he gives us look around you look at nature look at all the things that you see in the Bible and all the verification that we can have about this book being his word and authorized by him it's kind of a big answer I guess but I think it should play a huge role in our faith
Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. When you talk about giving our feelings as a reason to someone as the evidence, I think of that song, all about the resurrection, you know, "I serve a risen Savior," and the closing line of the chorus is, you
ask me how I know he lives? He lives within my heart." and you know, like at one point I was really struggled with that as like, "That's not a very good reason to give people as a reason for your hope."
I have, I have come to believe there is something to that, you know, that absolutely the way that he transforms us, the way he works in us, our faith grows as we are in relationship with him But thankfully, God didn't just leave it at that. the people of God are a great evidence and people will look to your life and look to your story and see something often that can help their faith.
But there are other reasons to believe he lives, you know, and those have been really powerful in my personal life. And I think it's different for different people. My wife just always believed. She never needed evidence. She just got it. It just clicked for her. And for me, you know, truth is a big and complicated issue for me and I want to think through what I believe and why I believe it at every turn and be confident, especially when I'm speaking it to others, like you said.
But I want to stand on a solid foundation and I think for me that struggling through doubt and consideration and pondering has made a firmer foundation. But there are people who deconstruct their faith and never find a way to put it back together.
And, and so you have to be really intentional and thoughtful and careful in how you're doing this kind of work to build towards the Lord. looking at evidence is really helpful. You examine the evidence and you make a decision to trust. Nothing is going to force you to believe. There is no evidence for anything so powerful that you have to believe it. You just make a decision whether that, you know, about anything.
And my favorite metaphor for this is marriage. And it's an imperfect metaphor, like all metaphors. But, you know, whenever I looked at Adrienne, I got to know her for three years, and I made the decision, I want to spend my life with her. I want to give my faithfulness to her. I want to put my trust in her, that she's gonna give her faithfulness to me.
That we are going to partner and work and figure this out together in life. And I did that based on her character and who she was and all kinds of things. once I made that decision, like, I'm in. Now, I'm not examining other covenants. I'm deciding, okay, I need to keep working through things in trust, in faith, and in faithfulness with her.
And it's that way with God. We made a decision, we are in a relationship with Him, and now we just try to work in faith with Him. That's the basis of a
Bryan: I think would you say that it's different for different people I think even Jesus would say the same thing it reminds me of John chapter 5 around verse 30 and 31 where Jesus is saying if I only testify of myself my testimony is not true if I only tell you the facts of who I am and that's all I have to show and prove then don't believe me and then he goes on to give four different witnesses you know standing on trial presenting the evidence and the case for Jesus and who he is at least one of those should be compelling enough for you to be like oh yeah I get it and so you take the leap you step out I think for everyone it's gonna be maybe slightly different so that's maybe a discussion on evidence we're gonna get into a lot more evidence coming up in part 3 where we get into the book and then we talk a little bit about this reading from 1st Corinthians 15
Part 3: Into the Book
Square One - 4: In 1 Corinthians 15:1-11, Paul repeats a summary of the gospel that he received many years earlier than delivered to others. He calls these facts of "first importance" and specifically argues later in the chapter that if Christ wasn't raised from death, our faith is useless and pitiful.
But he closes the chapter declaring that if Jesus arose from the dead, then we can rise up too, making everything we do lasting and meaningful. So this isn't just about historical details. What happened the Sunday after Jesus died changes everything for you and me today. Paul carefully explains the facts because Christ's resurrection is the foundation of Christian hope.
So read 1 Corinthians 15:1-11 together to understand the heart of the good news. After reading, take some time to discuss it. What are the basic facts listed and what do you find most compelling?
1 Corinthians 15: The Resurrection
Bryan: all right so after reading this passage here in 1st Corinthians 15 verses 1 to 11 we're gonna talk a little bit about these facts but before we do that as we've been doing in these discussions let's go ahead and read
Ryan: 1 Corinthians 15, verse 1. " Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve.
Bryan: he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time most of whom are still alive though some have fallen asleep then he appeared to James then to all the Apostles last of all as to one untimely born he appeared also to me for I am the least of the Apostles unworthy to be called an Apostle because I persecuted the Church of God but by the grace of God I am what I am and his grace toward me was not in vain on the contrary I worked harder than any of them though it was not I but the grace of God that is with whenever then it was I or they so we preach and so you believe the Ryan they're thinking about this amazing verse what do you see here are the important facts that are being listed and which of them do you find most compelling
Ryan: He starts out with the fact that Christ died for our sins, and then He adds something there, "in accordance with the Scriptures," which brings us back to that last lesson and how All of this was talking about Jesus, and nobody seemed to get it, but it is fulfilled so perfectly in the Messiah who did come.
And then it says another thing that we can miss, and that He was buried. Well, I understand why the death of Jesus is important for our sins, and why the resurrection of Jesus is important to, you know, declare Him Lord and overcome death, but why was it important that He was buried? Well, there's part of the story there in Him going into the earth and, you know, the sign of Jonah and all of this, but a big part of it is the empty tomb as an evidence that this is a fact.
He had a honorable burial in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, and everybody knew where this...it was a big part of the story and what people understood, and people could point to that, tomb. They could have pulled out the body, the Romans, the Jews, anybody who opposed them and said, "Hey, let's just end this thing."
But it wasn't there,
Bryan: and you don't exactly bury somebody who hasn't died I mean that's another like real basic fact here it's like the fact that he died was evidenced by the fact that they put him in a tomb like of course you know if somebody was going to argue the fact that no he never actually died well they wouldn't have buried him and I think they were pretty well accustomed to making sure people had completely passed this life before they put them in the ground yep
Ryan: yeah, yeah. And, you know, then you get, after the resurrection on the third day, according with the Scriptures again, then you get to all the appearances, and those are compelling in their own right, but, you know, it starts right at the beginning in those basic facts, all of the evidence that's starting to mount up.
Bryan: I mean in and appearing to these people right it is in my book is maybe one of the most compelling pieces of the argument moving on here because he's appearing to Cephas and then 500 brothers at one time most of whom are still alive though some have fallen asleep so he's admitting here like okay 500 people do not exist on the earth right now who could who could attest to Jesus being alive some people did die but there's a bunch of people out there you could go talk to right
now
Ryan: yep.
Bryan: and then he appeared to James and to the Apostles you know James and the Apostles may have more of a reason to I don't know to make up a story possibly but like the fact that he's pointing to 500 people like just go talk to these 500 people and then he says last of all as to one untimely born he appeared also to me so Paul puts himself into the mix here and then begins to kind of talk about himself as you know not really being as important as everybody else but he's preaching as he says at the end of this he's preaching so that you can believe like that's the whole point of him even bringing this up in the first place is this is a reason why it shores up our faith it develops our faith though
Ryan: Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right when you say he's telling people, "Go and talk to these folks." It makes no sense for him to say, "Most of whom are still alive," unless that's the point, which is incredible. Like, go and talk to hundreds of people. Interview them. Check it out for yourself. It's a challenge. Go and find out for yourself.
He's not saying, "Take my word for it." He's saying the exact opposite. he has had an experience that changed him, and the life change is hint, is the key to this whole thing, that James didn't believe he was opposing Jesus. He was against this idea, and then he believes. The Apostles are discouraged and broken, and then they believe.
I mean, nobody was looking for the Messiah to die on a cross defeated by the Romans. That was not in anybody's playbook, and so it just shut everything down. the confidence that comes from just listing these things, Paul is building to a bigger argument that, "Hey, you should have faith that you're going to live forever, if you're going to raise because of this."
But he builds it on the most solid foundation there is for our faith, which is these truths about Jesus coming, dying, and raising again. And Paul received it, he said. "I received, I passed on to you what I also received." this is a very early collection of facts, maybe even a statement of faith or a summary of the gospel that people were passing on, like a memorized statement that was given to Paul and then Paul passed on.
Maybe not, maybe it's just like, "These are the facts. This is what I received. This is what you also received." But that goes back to, you know, probably 20 years before Paul wrote 1 Corinthians, that these facts were what he received. So this is an incredibly early statement of fact, which takes away, you know, the legendary ideas and, like, this story grew or something like that.
All these guys getting nothing from this. They're poor, they're humiliated, everybody hates them, and yet they say, "Well, what are we gonna do? We have to speak in this name. We have to tell people about this.
Bryan: and I glossed over the fact that Paul was kind of downplaying himself but I think one of the reasons why he's even talking about his role in all of this was because of the huge change that he made and the fact that now he is with the church being persecuted by the same people who he used to be arm in arm with it was compelling enough for him to just do a hundred and eighty degree turn and now to be suffering for it and I love the fact that he's bringing himself into this mix because yeah why would all of the Apostles why would James why would Peter why would all these people be suffering so much for a lot why would they be the ones who who open themselves up to this kind of contempt by the Jews for what purpose and I think that's why he's highlighting that fact that he's he's now in the mix he's on the other side of it and he believes strongly that this is the right place to be I think it's so important that he's included here in this list yeah
Ryan: Yeah, it's hard to explain that change otherwise,
you know, if you're an atheist, you don't believe Jesus actually rose from the dead, but most of them believe--they believed that he rose from the dead and that they ate with him and that they experienced him and that they touched him.
And so where does that come from? Hallucinations don't work this way, right? And so people try to come up with their theories. But we're talking about all these facts that we're about to lay out, so maybe we should get
Implications of the Resurrection
Bryan: I was just gonna say you're basically just tipping the hand for the entire next section so let's get into part four here where we go a little bit deeper we're gonna take a closer look at the facts of Jesus resurrection and really from a historical perspective not as much from a biblical perspective and then we're gonna ask the big question here at the end of it
Part 4: Going Deeper
Square One - 4: Ready to go deeper? While Paul laid out a compelling case in 1 Corinthians 15, what if we examined the events of Jesus' death and resurrection from a more objective historical perspective?
Many scholars and skeptics, believers, and atheists over the centuries have debated these events, attempting to prove or disprove the claim that Jesus conquered death. One survey considered over 1,400 sources written about the resurrection, surveying experts covering a full range of beliefs. Did Jesus rise from the dead?
Let's take a closer look at a few of the basic facts on which experts generally agree. The first is that Jesus died by Roman crucifixion, one of the harshest forms of execution ever conceived. Second, Jesus was buried, but soon afterward, the tomb was found empty. Days after his tomb was sealed with a large stone, several women found the stone rolled away and the body missing.
Third, the disciples experienced resurrection appearances. After Jesus' death, all the evidence suggests that the disciples' faith was shaken and all their hope was lost. Yet days later, everything changed. The movement of the now humiliated, slaughtered, supposed king found new life. The explanation of the disciples was that they saw the risen Jesus, touched his wounds, and ate with him.
This wasn't a belief that developed later. They proclaimed it right from the beginning, in the same city where Jesus had just died and was buried. Over decades of persecution, they never wavered in their testimony. Far from the kind of men to make up such a story, they became some of the world's most influential moral teachers and willingly died for their belief that they interacted with the man they watched die.
Number four, the persecutor, Saul of Tarsus, also known as Paul, was converted after what he believed was an encounter with the risen Jesus. He traveled the world telling people about how Jesus appeared to him and changed his life. Along the way, he wrote more books of the Bible than anyone else, several of which we've already read from together.
His letters open us to a breathtaking new worldview based on Jesus' life, death, and resurrection as the fulfillment of the Jewish scriptures. And last but certainly not least, Jesus' skeptical brother James was also converted after Jesus' resurrection. Again, the reason given was that he believed he too saw the risen Jesus.
The resurrection addresses our whole being. The overwhelming evidence speaks to our minds, convincing us that God gave a miraculous sign to base our faith upon. The narrative of Jesus' humiliating crucifixion and triumphant victory over death inspires our hearts with love and confidence in the risen Lord.
And Christ's authority motivates our will as we realize that Jesus has spoken the truth, turning us to him in admiration, love, and humble obedience. So here's the big question. Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead?
Do You Believe That Jesus Rose?
Bryan: the big question we asked at the end of this was
do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead Ryan I think I know your answer but do you believe Jesus rose from the dead
Ryan: do.
Bryan: okay moving
Ryan: that Jesus rose from the
dead. Yeah, Imean, it's--and that is a powerful thing, too. It's not like saying, like, " I believe that cornflakes are the greatest cereal." This
Bryan: they are not
Ryan: like--well, that would be a silly belief, first of all. But it is a belief that if you believe this, then some things that come with it, a big change.
And I remember I was a senior in high school when there was the Oklahoma City bombing, you know, tragedy with Timothy McVeigh
Bryan: Wow
Ryan: killed a lot of people. And we watched the news as they interviewed people who are left behind, people whose families had died and stuff like that. And it was really sad. And then there was this gospel preacher from a local Church of Christ there in Oklahoma City that they were interviewing, and he had just lost his wife in the bombing.
And the reporter asked him, "Has this catastrophe affected your faith?" you know, what a thing, you know, to--like, they're just looking for a story, I guess, you know, looking for a--yeah, like--but as he tried to process this tragedy and the effect it would have on his family, I'll never forget his response.
He said, "My faith is based on the historical fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ." And the TV reporter couldn't change the subject fast enough because he had just, like, mic-dropped it. He had just Here is the reason for the hope within me." And bad things happen. I'm wrestling with this. I'm dealing with it.
It's hard. I'm sad.But my faith in Jesus isn't going anywhere, you know. There's a reason for our hope. And so, anyway, that moment has affected me ever since, just seeing that news. Because he was giving testimony to me, you know. He was saying,
Bryan: I think he knew exactly what he was
doing when he said that
Ryan: Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, this is a powerful thing to stand on, and I have spent a lot of time thinking about, you know, if I were to just base everything on this, there reason?
Is the most likely, reasonable, probable explanation the supernatural explanation? That when you look at these facts, the most reasonable way to understand them is that Jesus really did raise from the dead, and I believe that they are.
Bryan: yeah
Ryan: I believe that is the most reasonable explanation.
Bryan: and that's again I think it's important to add the word reasonable into this conversation because you don't have the weight of history and evidence you know all the things we've been talking about here first Corinthians 15 and all the historical record and even skeptics and atheists agreeing about things that really happened you don't have all of this weight of evidence there and just get to kind of go willy-nilly and loosey-goosey about it like it is it is proof we haven't seen it I didn't get to you know witness it firsthand but I can look at all of this and put it all together and create a foundation that's unshakable the argument that a lot of people want to make and I think maybe the argument that that reporter was trying to get to was like you know there are things that we base our faith on that have nothing to do with reality and reason and logic and facts it has everything to do with circumstances and feelings and you know things that are going on in this life that are working out well for us or not you know and to let the winds of change and circumstances affect your faith like that is just like it's like the you know the waves of the sea tossed to and fro like how am I going to trust God today based on the things that are happening to me and it's no way to live and I think you know really settling in in on these facts and like that man was able to say you know I believe that Jesus rose from the dead and that is the basis of my faith yeah
Ryan: yeah. And, you know, I know that we have approached throughout this particular conversation, these facts, especially in that section four that we just went through, as just looking at the Bible as historical documents that, you know, would be fallible, for the sake of argument. And that's not what we believe, because we have come to faith in Jesus, but we want to encourage people that haven't yet thought through this, before they make the commitment, "No, there is a right--" You don't check your brain at the door when you walk into Christianity.
You say, "No, this is--this makes sense of life. This makes sense of everything, and there is good reason to believe it." And you'll need that for those hard times, and those hard sacrifices, and moments of risk, and pursuing hard things for God. You'll need that faith, and that faith will only grow once you have the foundation.
But all of the disciples said, "Here is what we're preaching. Something has happened." And it's different than, like, teaching Buddhism or something, where you just say, "Hey, you know, we think these ideas are good." No, we're saying,
"Something in history happened, and it changed everything. This is good news, and it's news because something happened that changes
Bryan: I love that all right so let's wrap up this conversation in part 5 where we get into our challenge we look ahead at the next session and we offer a closing blessing
Part 5: Challenge and Closing Thoughts
Square One - 4: So the historical basis for our belief in Jesus is more than worthy of serious consideration.
This week, take some time to write down your thoughts on the question, "What does it mean if Jesus was raised from the dead?" As you start the next conversation, take a moment to talk about what you noticed. It's far more than an academic exercise to consider Jesus' impact on our lives. He offers the solution to our biggest problems, sin and death, and accomplished it all through his suffering and resurrection.
In our next conversation, we'll build on these discussions to ask one of the greatest questions we can ever consider. How does Jesus change things? And so as we meditate on all of this, may God help us to believe even though we haven't seen
Bryan:
Part 5 Discussion
Ryan: okay so the challenge that we had there was to think about this question write down some thoughts surrounding this question what does it mean if Jesus was raised from the dead we're not actually asking people to firm up and just completely agree with that fact yet know some people are gonna take time and I think we all probably took time to really settle in on that but what if I think is a really good way of putting this like what if Jesus actually did raise from the dead what does that mean Yeah, the implications are massive, and, they'll probably be scratching the surface of it, but, the more you dive into it, the more your hope and confidence will grow. So yeah, we could talk about that more next time, but I think it's a great way to end this
A Closer Look: Leading the Study
Bryan: for sure all right so let's take a closer look here about our thoughts on leading this session.
all right so as we look at parts 1 through 5 of our discussion I think it's important for us to kind of just really understand that we're not asking people yet to make up their mind you don't necessarily need them to walk away completely confident in everything yet you just need to have presented the evidence so that it kind of settle in and maybe solidify in their hearts leaving space for that possibility of that question what if this actually happened and how would that change things I think is a good way of viewing this
Ryan: Yeah, and I think it is a very biblical conversation. this is how the gospel was preached, is to build on this thing that has happened, the death and the burial and the resurrection of Jesus, the appearances that people experienced. And so I think that it's really important to let people know this is how the gospel works.
Jesus entered the real world. He did something that we needed him to do, and then God put a giant exclamation mark on his lordship that he is the one we should follow, and it continues to give us clarity, clues to the truth of his lordship.
Bryan: and in this whole conversation we're gonna be getting into and we did get into a lot of really solid heavy fact-based historical records so I think starting part one with a little bit of a light-hearted intro here is helpful and I was letting my nerd flag fly on this one you know we're talking about time travel and stuff like that might not be your jam I totally get that but establishing someone's trust of history I think is maybe an important tenet of the next part of this conversation likeyou look to historical records do you understand that people were actually living on this earth based on things we read about them or archaeological evidence we find about them or whatever it is just kind of tying in with somebody that like hey we're headed back to the past
Ryan: I liked it because, you know, time travel was a fun entry point for it, but really you were drawing the distinction between your own sensory experience versus believing that things happened in the past that you haven't seen, you haven't experienced for yourself, and yet you believe that they happened.
And so that contrast is what we're working with, that we don't just believe what we can touch. Unlike Thomas, you know, we have to find faith by looking at the evidence in history. So I thought it was a great way to
Bryan: and then part two obviously getting into Thomas there in that conversation that Jesus has with him and the way they interacted with with each other I think when you get to the point of talking to somebody in these conversations I think it is helpful just to acknowledge the place that doubt and questions do play obviously I think Thomas would have been better off if he just believed without having to have the evidence and see for himself and that's basically what Jesus told him but I also think it is good for us to have that sort of curiosity right to be asking those questions to be really interested in the answers to those questions I think Thomas gets some credit in my book for being somebody who he's a seeker he's looking for something but he's not gullible
Ryan: Yeah, I think that part opens up a really important part of the conversation as someone thinks through their conversion also, because, you know, we're asking the question, "Why should I believe in Jesus?" But underlying that, we're kind of asking the question, "How does belief work? How does faith work? Do I need to feel bad if I am struggling to just give auto-consent to everything here, or is it okay that I'm wrestling with this and saying, 'You know, this is how everybody in the Bible works through it.
This is the nature of faith.'" And you settle in eventually, but there is a process, and that is healthy, that is okay, and I think that's good to help people work through their own
Bryan: I was just thinking about somebody who reads the entire letter of the contract versus somebody who hits the DocuSign button over and over and over again and just you know next question next question and proceeds it's like I think Thomas was definitely one of those guys who would have sat down and read every single word of that of that document before he agreed to it so part three then we then transitioned into this discussion about first Corinthians 15 and I think it earns its position in the center of this conversation first Corinthians 15 is really at the heart of our belief in this great event that took place and I think it's also worth you know mentioning that we're addressing it we're reading through it together we're going to answer some questions because this is really the linchpin of everything but I think it's also gonna be really helpful that in part four we kind of set it aside and just talk about things from a purely non-biblical historical perspective because both of these combined together I think is a really powerful and compelling case.
Ryan: Yeah, no, that's well said, and I think that people start to feel like things are circular logic when you use the Bible to prove the Bible, but you have to help them to see, "Okay, consider this one document that you're looking at, or one collection of documents that we have great attestation for the dating and the validity of the document."
Now, whether you believe what is said or not, that is a different process in that historical method where we're working through, "What should I think about this?" And, you know, if you think about why is it so widely dismissed as a historical fact by, you know, a lot of people, they think of it as just, it's just religion, and the only real reason is that it requires a supernatural explanation.
And so if you say you have to have a natural explanation for these facts, then you're really stuck. I mean, there's people come up with all kinds of crazy things trying to work through it if they really take seriously this process of thinking through historical artifacts and historical evidence, but you end up, or at least I ended up with the conclusion that, "Man, it does not make a lot of sense.
I have no problem with the possibility that a supernatural explanation could be valid." And once you get to there, then it's like, "Okay, this is what happened. This is what happened, period."
Bryan: and I think that leans into our part four discussion when we you know as we as we talked about they're talking through some other evidences historically based and then asking that big question do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead this is the moment where like a do you believe question can be really loaded I wanted to make sure that everyone knows that like this is not the do you believe question right this is just really centering in on do you believe that this event happened and we'll get obviously to the do you believe in Jesus as the Son of God and they're very tightly tied together but just getting like small or really this is big buy-in but just getting that initial buy-in that like you believe that Jesus did come back from the dead based on all of this evidence maybe somebody's not gonna to agree to that right now maybe it'll take some time but like I think this is a good stepping stone to that broader belief that Jesus is the Lord of my life and can change everything about me
Ryan: Yeah, and they have to be able to say, "No," you know, or, "I don't know." It's not these questions. That point in each of these conversations is meant to be a personal check-in, but like a gentle confrontation, right? Something that just forces them to think about the fact that at some point, I have to make a decision, and what do I think right now?
And it's okay if you're not sure, but we're gonna keep working through. So what do you think about this? And I'm teaching through Ezekiel right now, and there is this instruction that Ezekiel is given that I think is really hard and really powerful that you have to let those who hear, hear, and let those who will not hear, not hear.
And that word "let" is really powerful and really hard because we want control, but our job is to give clarity, to give influence. And so, yeah, that's just a note on giving people space here to make their decision so that, I mean, that will actually help them make the right decision and make it properly, having done the work for themselves.
Bryan: of course you want this as we've been talking about to be based on evidence right not to be based on like the guy sitting across you giving you the the look right or the the situation you're in like just wanting to be out of this conversation like I'll say anything to end the call or whatever like no you want this to be founded on real and true things so I think part 5 here in this encouragement this challenge for somebody to go and think about this question I think is helpful and the blessing that we ended with was may God help us to believe that we haven't seen and that's really the whole point of this none of us have seen we've all been 2,000 plus years removed from Jesus death and resurrection but we all have the same evidence and so you know may God bless us to all see that together and if you're leading these conversations may God bless the one who you're talking to to see the very thing that we've been talking about today
Ryan: amen to that. Yeah, Peter goes one step further when he says, "Though you have not seen him, you
love him."
Peter is somebody who saw all of this play out, and he loved him, and he had a different experience of him, but he looked at all these people with amazement and appreciation, saying, " You haven't met Jesus, he's amazing, but you have found who he is and fallen in love with him, and you're following him in love."
And that is where we live and where we want others to live.
Bryan: and then I think leads really nicely into the next session session 5 which is gonna be our checkpoint 2 where really we kind of talk about this very thing developing a relationship with Jesus how does Jesus change things and what really is he going to do in your life based on your trust and your belief in him so we'll get into that on the next conversation thanks so much everyone for tuning in to the Bible Geeks podcast you can find us on our website Bible geeks FM you can find show notes for this episode in your podcast player of choice or at Bible geeks FM slash 131 go check out square 1 on our website you can find all of these sessions there you can watch the videos you can follow along and have these conversations with someone that you know and that you love about their faith until next episode everyone may the Lord bless you and keep you
Ryan: Shalom.