"Welcome to Analogy Land"
EPISODE 217
Engage in Gospel-Centered Conversations
In this episode, we finish our “Getting to Square One” Guided Study by discussing disciple-making practices. We open with a focus on the way Jesus asked questions. Then, we share a few of our Favorite Things to guide gospel-centered dialogue. It’s interesting how even our common, everyday conversations connect with the “holy conversations” we want to engage in as we bring God to the forefront and work through life’s most important issues. We pray this series has built you up and contributed to your efforts to share the good news. Go to biblegeeks.fm/squareone for videos, study guides, and more.
Takeaways
The Big Idea: Through love, we learn to lead a different kind of conversation, a holy conversation.
This Week's Challenge: Ask someone a spiritual question to start a conversation.
Episode Transcription
Look, we're full of analogies. Don't get lost in analogy land. Welcome to analogy land. Well, hello everyone and welcome to the Bible Geeks podcast. This is episode 217. I'm Bryan Schiele. I'm Ryan Joy. And thanks so much everyone for tuning in. We are in session three of our Getting to Square One Guided Study, a little baby guided study. This is the last conversation we'll have in preparing us to be prepared for having these kinds of conversations. Hopefully these studies have been helpful for you in this Getting to Square One Guided Study. Today we're going to be talking about disciple making practices. We're getting practical. We're putting the brass tacks, the rubber hits the road here in some practical things that we can do in helping people come to the Lord. Yeah. So we talked about perspectives to have in disciple making and the problems we run into. And now we're getting into some of the things that we do. We've kind of hinted at some of them throughout, but I hope that as we go through and complete these three studies, it'll lead the way nicely for the actual conversation designs that we're going to lay out in the Square One series. To help prepare us for this conversation, we do have a conversation starter. And that one we called Splash Zone. This is Getting to Square One Splash Zone. A couple of years back, we went to a dolphin show. And as we found seats, the kids asked, why can't we sit up front by the aquarium? We pointed to the Splash Zone signs and explained why we didn't want squishy shoes and drenched clothes all day. Sure enough, the water was so full, the dolphins so exuberant as they flipped, flopped and kicked their tails, it soaked everyone near them. And when the God of Hope fills you with all joy and peace and believing, you'll abound in hope. And it can open doors to share the reason for the hope that is in you. So here's the big idea. Through love, we learn to lead a different kind of conversation, a holy conversation. Talk is cheap as the saying goes, but our faith, boldness and commitment to others can make way for discovery and decision. First, slow down and listen. As Philippians 2 verse 4 says, learning to count others more significant and getting interested in the interests of others, it can spark profound dialogue with perfect strangers simply because we got fascinated by their world. It can ease us into the very personal subject of faith. And our interactions change as we pray for their well-being in every area of life, especially that it may go well with their soul. Investigate and get curious. Are they interested in religion or are they opposed to God? What led them here? Jesus loved asking questions, planting seeds and directing dialogue in fruitful directions. Scripture's truths remain as relevant today as ever. Maybe you'll find a way to connect their story with the story. You can even take a page from Paul and share your conversion story. As God's priests, we live to proclaim the excellencies of him who called us out of darkness. What has God done for you? Are you proclaiming it? Let your hope and joy overflow, splashing on everyone around you. So here's the big question. Are you filled to overflowing with the good news? So follow along with this short guided study at biblegeeks.fm/squareone and may the Lord bless you and keep you. Shalom. Okay. So our big idea there was through love, we learned to lead a different kind of conversation, a holy conversation. And that's kind of a weird phrase, I guess, a holy conversation. We don't usually talk about it that way, but holy means set apart for God's purposes. Something that's common isn't necessarily bad. It's just not set apart. Like you think of the common dishes that the people of Israel would use versus the holy vessels used in the temple. Those other dishes weren't bad, but these are set apart for God. And in the same way, some conversations can become sacred opportunities for people to step through a doorway into faith. And I don't know about you, but as I think back to the conversations that led to my conversion, I can see how some talks get real and full of divine purpose, right? The stakes become eternal. You're not just talking about religious ideas anymore. There is, if we would be permitted to say it this way, there are encounters with God in the scriptures and in prayer together and in the truths that he's revealed, the realization that that's about my life. This is for me and that I am making decisions now that will lead to eternity. You can see the power of the gospel at work in those holy conversations. I love that phrase there. And I don't just love it because we put it in there, but like, I love the idea, right? It's that, like you just said, you know, things get real where you're talking about substantive things. You've moved on from the common everyday kinds of discussions. And now it's where things get real and meaningful. Like we've been talking about. So the big question there in that conversation starter was, are you filled to overflowing with the good news? And the question may just seem to come out of nowhere unless you actually connect it with the conversation starter. You know, talking about the splash zone and that language, I think is so helpful in just visualizing what it is that I bring to the table, right? Is a conversation about the gospel deep down buried within me somewhere that I have to find, or like, is it just kind of sitting right at the top at the surface, like a glass that you filled accidentally too full that it's just like ready to spill out. And it's runneth over. Exactly. It's kind of that like, you know, tip of your tongue, top of your mind, willingness to share. It's just right there on the surface. Amen. Yeah. Well said. So our icebreaker is a question about listening. What is a telltale sign that someone stopped listening to you, Bryan? You know, in, in light of this conversation, cause really we're talking about practical things and how listening is such an important skill of talking to somebody and having substantive, holy conversations. When somebody stops listening to you, it's really obvious when they bust out their screen, whether they've got their phone at hand or they check their smartwatch or whatever. As soon as somebody starts looking at the screen or they're watching the TV behind your head or something like that, like, you know, you know that you've lost them. They're gone. They're on another planet. It's like, see ya. I can relate to that. Also, I was thinking about just, you know, you're talking to somebody and then you pause and you say, what do you think or something? And they just go off into this other thing that really has no relationship. I mean, tangentially it's connected to what you said, but it's just like something that happened to them that it made them think of, or it's some idea that just bounced into their head, but it's not building on what you said. They heard something somewhere in there and immediately they jumped to, I want to tell you this story about this time that I went skydiving. It's like, what, how did we get here? What happened? And you know, it's just like that deeper connection is missing whenever you're not turning, you know, the idea of a conversation, it's converting, it's a dialogue, it's going words going through. It's the, I always find that helpful to think of, you know, I'm a word nerd. And so, you know, that helps me to remember, okay, what they say needs to come into me and change into something else and go back and forth, but we're getting beyond like icebreaker level here now. Oh no, for sure. Yeah. As soon as the conversation turns to skydiving, you know, you've lost people. Let's get into our first segment here on the episode. And that is like the teacher. We often like to go and find where Jesus example gives us some helpful tips and things to think about. We're actually going to go through a few different examples of where Jesus shows us a better way. And that is through his powerful questions throughout the gospels. We see Jesus asking some really powerful questions. And in thinking about practical things we can do in having these kinds of holy conversations with people, questions are such a huge part of it. So let's find some things where Jesus shows us great examples of asking good questions. I was just saying before we started, we could do this all day with Jesus questions and they're all great. Oh man. But one question I was thinking of is in John five verse six, when he saw this man that needed healed and he said, do you want to be healed? And it seems like such an obvious question. And the answer seems obvious. So why did he even ask it? Like why not just heal him? But it forces a person to check with themselves elsewhere. He asks a blind man, what do you want me to do for you in Mark 10 51? And it's like, well, I just stopped you on the road. I can't see. It'd be great if you great healer would heal me. Like that seems obvious, but we need to decide what we're seeking. Jesus is very clear that what we seek will determine what we find, you know, as he says in the sermon on the mouth. So people need to clarify what they seek, especially when they're thinking about a full life decision, like becoming a disciple of Jesus. And so coaching someone to a point where they have to commit to a decision about what they really want, thinking about what is it you want that can be a game changer, even if it does seem like a no brainer. I really appreciate Jesus. No brainer questions because it's like Jesus knows what they need, but sometimes he wants them to wrestle with it and just be very, very clear and explicit. It's like, yeah, you can still ask that question. It's good. So my first question here was from Luke nine versus 18 through 20. He actually has two questions here, but I'll just focus on the last one. It says that he asked them, who do the crowds say that I am? And they answered him, John the Baptist. And others say, no, it's Elijah. And some of the others think that he was a prophet who had been risen. And then here's the question. He says, then he said to them, but who do you say that I am? And Peter answered the Christ, the son of God. I love this clarifying question because Jesus knows that people often speak in generality, that conversations tend to be more vague. Okay. Well, people say and people believe and those people do these things, right? But like there is an approach to getting really specific and personal that I think is super helpful here. And Jesus shows us a better way. He says, who do you think that I am? It's helpful for you to look around and see all the people around you and what they believe, but what do you believe? Like, what is it that you think? And that is a powerful pivot in any conversation to get to the point where you're speaking not in generalities, not in vagaries, but in really specific ways of like, what is it that you believe about this? So a helpful turn in that conversation, I think that Jesus shows us there for sure. Oh, that is so good. I like what you're saying about the twist. It's like, I did a sermon on this a year or two ago where I talked about that first question as like an establishing shot in a TV show or a movie where, you know, it shows the diner from the outside. And then you go in and now he's asking Peter the question. It's like focusing in on his face and it sets the context for everything else and gives him the opportunity to contrast. Okay, now that we understand there's a lot of ideas out there about me, but this isn't about them anymore. That fades into relief and the foreground is you and your choice. And that's all there is. So cinematic. Yeah, right. I thought about a question that takes us right to the scriptures where Jesus is reasoning with people about a passage from Psalms and he is challenging what they think they know. He says in Mark 12, 35 to 37, how can the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself in the Holy Spirit declared, the Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet. David himself calls him Lord. So how is he his son? And it's like a little logic pretzel for their brains to work through as the incarnation of Christ is and the idea of him as David's descended. The truth is right there. It's in the scriptures, but what they needed to get is all that they don't get. Like to know that category, you know what you know, and you know what you don't know, but do you know what you don't know? You don't know, you know, and so he's taking what they know and believe in helping them realize that maybe there's more to it than they thought. Maybe they don't know what they thought they did and need to re-examine the scriptures, not to create doubt in the scriptures, but to have them shift from that. I know to, I have more to learn because there's no teaching anybody anything until they get to that. If you're stuck in your overconfidence or your bias or your, I know then all of those assumptions, all of that that you bring with you is keeping you from that humble meek learner's heart. And so Jesus was so good at almost like a needle that just pokes at you until you say, okay, okay, I get it. I am not as smart as I thought I was. I'm ready to listen. I think it's interesting how he could have approached this discussion very differently, right? He could have said like, you've heard that it was said, but I say to you, he's not so much teaching them as he's wanting them to work for it. That is such a powerful approach. When you really think about who your audience is, these people in Jesus inner circle who are ready to grapple with this stuff on their own, which I really appreciate. So my last question here from John three verse 12, which is a conversation that Jesus is having with Nicodemus. And he says to him, if I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe it? If I tell you heavenly things, I love this question of Nicodemus. It's like, sometimes we can get lost in analogy land. Like, you know, if you're anything like me, it's certainly not like the happiest place on earth, right? Analogy land. If you're anything like me, sometimes you just get stuck in the analogy. And Jesus is obviously giving physical examples of things. Then he's saying, like, if you don't believe the physical things I'm telling you, these analogies, these comparisons, then how are you going to believe if I tell you a heavenly thing, a spiritual thing? I love how Jesus kind of pulls his mind back. He's helping Nicodemus to see like, no, no, I'm speaking physically here, but I'm doing this so that you can understand something more deep and more impactful, something more spiritual. And man, while Jesus taught in parables all the time and stories, if people got lost at the story, then he couldn't help them get deeper. And so this question is really like, hey, Nicodemus, are you ready to go deeper with me? Are you ready to make a connection from a physical example I'm sharing with you to a spiritual truth? And sometimes when we're using analogy, when we're using these examples in a conversation with somebody, it is helpful for us to say, look, I'm not really talking about skydiving here. What I'm actually talking about is something deeper than that. Do you understand? Are you ready to go down this rabbit hole with me? It's like a meta comment about the conversation itself and like where it's getting stuck, which we've talked about. It makes me think of your example a few episodes back about the guy you're studying with that tells you, I'm only doing this because my girlfriend wants me to. And it's like, well, let's talk about that. Let's get unstuck on that first. Let's talk about where, yeah, what we're talking about and why we're not talking about the real things. I appreciate that. I like that. Good questions. All right. So Jesus was full of great questions and we're going to get into our second segment here on the episode and that is favorite things. These are a few of my favorite things. So there are some things about guiding conversations that maybe we have come to appreciate over the years. Definitely things that have worked well for us. And I think, you know, these are the kinds of favorite things that we appreciate about leading a conversation and how you walk away from a conversation. It just can uplift you and build you up. And what is it that you find so helpful, I think, in these kinds of conversations, holy conversations. Yeah, holy conversations. And you just said it, building people up. I just did a series on Barnabas, you know, one of my favorites. I had preached on him in a long time and just the way that he could lift someone. He could believe in them. He could see what was there in Paul or Mark or whoever that other people weren't, or even the Gentiles that they were converting. And he could really strengthen them. He was the son of encouragement. And that is a really important part of this process, I think, just noticing people, noticing who they are and what they're doing well and any positive steps they've taken toward Christ. As you're working with them, you have to notice the new ground that they've taken and be truthful about their next step, but still just keep building them. There is obviously a tearing down that happens when people start to see themselves in the light of the cross and their sins, if they don't already understand somewhere in them that awfulness of sin. But like Jeremiah talks about in his call, he was told he's gonna plant and he's gonna pluck up. He's gonna tear down and he's gonna build. And so there's both, but you want to make sure that you're building people up. And I suppose this could be false, but just genuinely appreciating people as you're working with them. I mean, here's somebody who is putting their time into a conversation about the Lord and who is genuinely asking the questions, hopefully. And when they make a wise comment that aligns with scripture, affirm it and have some excitement and build from it and just continue to let people be built up in Christ as they're drawing nearer to him. Or of course, with other Christians as you're investing in them, appreciating them, strengthening them, helping them to find their gifts and their opportunities to grow as you're lifting them up. I think that may be one of the most important things. Cause like you said, people are going to come to the stark realization that their sins have really impacted their lives in ways they may not have ever thought about. But when you really get that opportunity to step in and build and use that moment, right? Use those opportunities to start adding to their faith and start helping them take one step in front of another one. And really just being that encourager along the way, like Barnabas, that is such a powerful role that we play in these conversations. We are people builders. You know, we're bridge builders between people and the Lord. Like you said, I really appreciate that part of it. My first thing is kind of in a similar vein to yours. And that was that I think that feelings take a little bit more precedence than the objectives in a conversation. And I don't know exactly if that makes sense to everybody, but you know, I feel like sometimes when you have a conversation with somebody, when you sit down and you talk, it's like, what did we accomplish in this conversation? Like, you know, what three things were done and accomplished here in this discussion? It's like, did we meet our objectives? I don't know that that's always as important as how did this conversation make somebody feel? Did I make somebody feel like they were valued in this conversation? Kind of like to what you were just saying about people building, right? And I think it's so easy to like, okay, we need to cover the material or we need to make our points when we're trying to share our faith with someone. It's kind of that, oh man, I wish I would have said blank, you know, after the conversation. Maybe most importantly, how did I make somebody feel? Did my love for them show up in the discussion? Did I show genuine concern and interest in them in the conversation? They may not want to come back because we're some like, you know, wise monk sitting on a rock where people come to like seek their wisdom or whatever, but maybe they'll want to come back because we were warm and sincere and man, that is something as an engineer and a spreadsheet man that I am learning constantly. Like I want to cover the points. I want to get to my objectives. I want to say all the right things and do all the right things, but do I really want to impart somebody with a feeling and leave them feeling like I actually did care and I did genuinely show an interest in them. And I think that ties in with what you were just talking about. Yeah, it runs counter to what we usually talk about because there's such an overemphasis on like the whole thing is feelings, right? In some religious circles. And so then it's like the pendulum swings and you're like, yeah, I don't care how you feel. I just told you the truth and the truth is going to, you know, Steven, you stiff necked on circumcised of heart and ears. And it's like, okay, like there's a place for that, but that's at the end of a study and you're probably not going to come back around to keep building on this. Whereas, you know, like Ken Leach used to always say, people don't care what you know until they know that you care. If you're speaking the truth in love, Ephesians 4 to 15, like the essence of what we're doing as a church, the power of the truth is what's going to convert them. But the love that you're showing up with in these conversations to try to bless them, to give them something, to help them to move forward towards the Lord and to have eternal life and all of these things. If you feel that, then that changes the whole dynamic. So I think that's right on track. I hope that didn't come across like as an apology for what you were saying, but it's like almost like a, hey, don't miss this just because other people are abusing it. This is really important. And I guess, you know, in some ways my favorite thing number two goes with that, but also it might sound like it's a focus on objectives, but it's focusing on objectives with a prayerful mind towards achieving them and that's setting and praying for your intentions or your goals for what you want to accomplish in a conversation. And we talked about this recently in a different context, but you know, I want to pray fervently ahead of time about what I hope God accomplishes. I mean, if we're not doing that, what are we doing? Right? Pray fervently. I want to pray not just about the blessings that I want for them, but also about how I want to show up in the conversation. It's getting clear in my own mind, but then it's giving all of that to God to have him help and strengthen. And then I can sort of let go of it. You know, once I pray about it, then I want to ask for the grace and the wisdom not to grip that steering wheel too tightly to leave room for them for the truths that they need in that moment. Sometimes I have had this outline of what I wanted to cover. Like you said, that we're kind of saying the same thing in some ways that I'm so attached to my outline that I'm missing those real moments, those big questions, those roadblocks that they're telling me about or whatever. And all of this just comes from a faith that God really is at work in answer to our prayers. We don't always know what he's up to, but I know his will for their souls and I'm aiming for that. I don't know what the process is going to look like that hidden process of conversion. We talked about with the soil and the seed below the surface as I'm just tilling and planting and watering. And so I need to be intentional without being like gripping tightly some particular way that it needs to look. I think that's really powerful as a perspective shift for me. And it's probably tax on to what you were saying about that conversation I had with that young man who's pretty vocal about how he was only studying with me for a very specific reason. It's like I might have a specific intention about making it through this particular lesson or this material or whatever, but what is the Lord need me to do in this conversation that I might not be ready for yet? And like you said about gripping the steering wheel too tightly, if I'm so caught up in like requiring myself to get through something without stopping to really say like, what does this moment actually need? Should I throw that plan out the window so that I can figure this out where we are right now? It's a really powerful reminder that God's behind the wheel and we just have to be ready for where he's wanting us to go. So I think that's really helpful for me. Speaking, I guess in the navigation paradigm here, look, we're full of analogy. Don't get lost in analogy land. Welcome to analogy land. So I think it's really helpful to remember the personal waypoints and the throwbacks. It's one of my favorite things in a really successful conversation. There is like an artfulness to listening to somebody and listening intently in a way that shows up to the conversation. So like when somebody brings up something from the past, you like squirrel it away in your memory and you remind yourself of it. And then at a strategic moment in the conversation, you bring it back up because it's relevant to what you're saying now. It's helpful, I think not as like a tactic or like a trick or something like that, but it's just like building on the story of their life. It's letting them show up in the conversation personally and remembering who they are and what they're about. And like the worst thing you can do in a conversation is to like use the wrong name for the person or for like, you know, the person's family members or some situation that happened to them, like refer to something that actually didn't happen to them, but happened to somebody else. It's like, are you listening? Are you listening intently to the point where you can bring up relevant details about somebody's life into the conversation you're having right now? And those throwbacks is just a helpful way of reminding somebody like that you do care, that you're interested, that you're genuinely and sincerely interested in their wellbeing and building them up, but also in their life and where they came from. You know, that whole idea of listening is just so powerful. And if you can't do that, if you can't get to that point where you're listening to somebody and able to like weave their story into this conversation, that might be something to really work on, I think, just making those kinds of personal connections and like you're not reading a script, you're actually having a real conversation with an actual human being sitting across from you. And when those things click, it's almost magical, I think. Yeah, it's a real advantage to helping these ideas not be abstract, right? You know, you're bringing it home, as we sometimes say, like in preaching, you know, we're applying the idea of, you know, you take whatever, something that you're trying to stick together and you're applying it truth to life. And you brought up in one of the lines in one of the conversation starters, the idea of helping them to connect their story to the story. And, you know, sin can be just such an abstract idea until you start to see it and they start to talk about their guilt or how their marriage fell apart or how whatever it is in their life and starting to understand that sin is the problem and that that is where everything comes from. And then to see the cross in the light of that conversation, to see mercy, to see as you're talking about mortality and the people that have died in their life, you start to see, okay, this is what the stakes are. You don't have to die. The one that follows me, though he die, he will live forever. You know, I heard once somebody say that preaching is the word of God told through the fire of someone's life. But whenever you're studying together, it's not just through the fire of your life. It's bringing it to their life and letting it catch fire in them. More analogies. This is so great. Welcome to analogy land. All right. So let's move on here to our third segment. And that is our reach out question. Reach out, reach out and touch someone. So our question for each other on this episode in this last guided study session from getting to square one, we're going to ask each other, what do quality everyday conversations teach you about guiding holy conversations? And I like this shift, right? It's like we have all kinds of quote unquote, common conversations, like you had mentioned earlier. How did those conversations shape or teach us about having more substantive ones? There's probably a lot of things we could talk about, like just looking at that connection between everyday conversations and holy conversations. I think that they are just almost inseparable. They go together really well, you know, relationships lead to that real talk we keep coming back to. And my two older kids are at that age where the talks sometimes need to get heavier, a little trickier. We're in a Bible class on parenting. There was a young man who isn't a dad yet. And he shared that as a youth, he felt like if a parent or an adult didn't want to listen, engage about the unimportant stuff in his life, he would be much less likely to engage with them on the big stuff. Like it just was a barrier. But whenever someone was connecting with him in those other details, it just made way for that. Again, I think back to my own conversion or people who've helped me grow in life, we want to understand the distinction between the common and the holy, but also see that relationships are really helpful in bringing about the conversion and all those conversations about whatever they're into invests in that relationship and creates a freedom to talk about the heavier things. So like in my house, honest favorite Broadway musical of the moment, whatever it is, you know, Les Mis, you know, and why it's so great or Asher's favorite book series. If you create a moment for them, they will open up and talk about it forever. Like if you give them room, all of a sudden you were just like, man, he's so distant and you know, how do I create a connection? And then you just start leaning into them and their world and it just opens. It's like a flower opening up. And then suddenly it can turn also into a revelation about their relationships or their insecurities and doubts. Or sometimes we've had some really big theological questions come up that you think that you're in one conversation and then you look around and you know, almost get whiplash like, oh, what, oh, we're in that now. Okay. It just got real. It got real and it's all connected. And obviously my kids are my top targets to disciple. I want to, you know, I want to reach out to as many as I can, but I have a different responsibility here. I have seen the same principles at work with relative strangers that I'm studying with about the gospel, that rapport that, you know, it's kind of, I guess the theme of this whole episode, that rapport, that bigger investment in their wellbeing can make a big difference as we're trying to influence them for the Lord. My answer to this question, what equality everyday conversations teach you about guiding holy conversations. Anytime I talk about quote, unquote stuff, whatever that is, I feel like it's just easy and light. You know, when you're talking to somebody about something that you love, like if I'm a skydiving aficionado, right? Like I'm gonna, I'm going to bring it up. Like I'm going to talk to people about it because it's on my mind. It's something I'm thinking about and it's not going to be like a, you know, okay, hold on, let me prepare a five part essay that I needed to like practice and rehearse the night before. It's like, I'm just going to share with you something I'm enthusiastic about. And when, when the subject comes up, man, it is on, like I'm ready to talk about it. If it's not something that I'm interested in, maybe I'm working on being a little bit better about somebody who asks questions and engages people in the things they're interested in. You know, you may not love Les Mis or whatever book series Asher is reading right now, but it's like, how can you get interested in that? Ask more questions, be more engaged, right? And I think about small conversations like that teach me about the level of engagement that it takes to have a holy conversation. I'm not a different person. I don't have to be on or pretend to do something or be somebody I'm not. I just have to show up and be curious about them to be interested in what's going on. I think it's one of the things that I really love about the chosen episodes that we've been doing, how you look to these actor portrayals of Jesus and he's just having some of the most powerful conversations with people in the most common everyday circumstances, just casually off the cuff mentioning something as they're walking along. It's like, that's how these conversations would have been. You know, Jesus was not like, hold on everybody, Peter, can you get out the pulpit so I can set it up and stand here and tell everybody the things they need to know? It's like, he's just talking to them, you know, while he's walking and being excited, being engaged, being curious. And I think all these things about just regular everyday conversations help me see that holy conversations are really not that much different. It's about excitement and engagement. And can I show up to those kinds of conversations is really my big challenge. Yeah, yeah. And I think that so much of what I learned through the years, I just have read every book I've gotten my hands on, talked to every, anytime anybody is doing anything with evangelism, I try to grab ahold of them and ask them questions. And I just always have felt like there's just so much more that I can be doing. How, what am I, what am I doing wrong? Because, you know, I don't have the batting percentage that I want. Sports analogies. Yeah, sports analogy land. I just think this is one aspect that I have not heard talked about very much. So I think that's, that's why this is an important foundation to lay for the conversations of square one is, you know, instead of just thinking what I always did of presenting and talking and arguing a compelling argument is still important. But when you start thinking in terms of thinking with people, reasoning with people, it starts to change the way that engagement works. You know, when you're asking questions like Jesus did, and you're getting people to see where they're stuck and working towards real discipleship and helping them to see through the stories of Christ, who he is, or, you know, in their own story or your story, the proof texts are all still important, but it brings a new depth and I think sustainable walk with God that we're trying to create in them whenever it gets to that other more. It's not, it's not that they're not the other way of doing it. They, it wasn't real. That's not the right word, but there is, there is still a surface to what I sometimes would talk about because it was just, it was just abstract arguments. And this has, you know, approaching things from this more relational dialogue, whole life investment in people kind of thing, changing my prayers a little bit and focusing on that has definitely made a massive impact on my work in disciple making. So hopefully that helps other people to think about. Well, yeah, I mean, there's so much to cover here, but I hope that really the focus here has been on getting real and, you know, having real conversations means we have to show up and be real people. So let's move on to our challenge this week. And boy, howdy, do I think this is an obvious one. I am ready to face any challenges that might be foolish enough to face me. Okay. So this week's challenge is to ask someone a spiritual question to start a conversation, which is what we've been talking about. And you might be amazed at how just something that points the way to an interesting conversation about things that most people have thought about, you know, what happens right after you die? What do you, what do you think about that? Or, but you notice all the stuff that's happening in the world with everybody being nasty to each other and so many bad things happening. Where do you think that comes from? And what do you think is the solution to that? I mean, it doesn't have to be, what do you think of Jesus? Although that is a great question to ask somebody and to get into. Who do you say that he is? Who do you say that he is? I mean, it's a great question. I think this, there might not be a better and more obvious challenge here for this episode. I think this is all the things we've been talking about. Getting into a whole discussion on questions and how Jesus was a, was just a professional question asker is a real good challenge for us to just find out those questions that can maybe push somebody, maybe challenge somebody, maybe encourage somebody in some way, following up with a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about here on the episode. So take it on, do it along with us and ask somebody a spiritual question this week. I love it. Well, we're going to close as we have encouraged prayer throughout this, this conversation to be a big part of everything we do, especially as we're trying to bring the gospel to others. We're going to pray, fill us with hope and embolden us as we proclaim your excellencies coming from first Peter two 10 and Romans 15 13, which says, may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing so that by the power of the Holy Spirit, you may abound in hope. So let's go to God. Oh, God of hope, you're so good. And we just ask you to fill us with all joy and peace and believing so that by the power of the Holy Spirit, we may abound in hope. May we never lose our wonder at the deliverance you've brought to us, the life we will share forever with you. We pray that Christ would live in us, give us open doors, give us wisdom to step through them. Well, strengthen our sense of responsibility towards the people around us that don't know you, but also protect us from the arrogance that takes that power into our own hands and help us instead to trust your work and the power of the gospel. We want to represent you in the world as a holy priesthood, proclaiming how good and excellent you are. We just ask you to please help us to be the presence of good news in the lives of others, to be a constant sign pointing towards you. And we pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. All right. So that wraps up this little mini series, getting to square one on the next episode, we're going to take a different approach and go a little bit lighter. We're going to get into episode seven of season one of the chosen again. We're going to try this season to finish up that first season of the chosen. And then after that, we will be sort of diving into the meat of square one, not quite getting into the actual guided study itself, but I think it's useful maybe for us to talk a little bit about what square one is. You're probably like, you know, we've been hearing about square one. We've been thinking about evangelism. What on earth are we actually going to be doing? And so maybe we're going to have a helpful conversation in a couple of weeks about that series and what we're doing and the tools we've built and all that stuff. So thanks everyone for tuning into the Bible geeks podcast. You can find us on our website at biblegeeks.fm can find show notes for this episode and podcast player or at biblegeeks.fm/217 follow along the square one series at biblegeeks.fm/squareone. And if you have any questions, please reach out to us on our website or on social media or in person. We would love to talk to you about the gospel or this show or skydiving, whatever it is. We don't care. Thanks everyone for tuning in until next episode. May the Lord bless you and keep you. Shalom.